Liquid Cooling, is it necessary?

[jfri 42]

Correct. To put it into fighter pilot speak, these are fire and forget units. Of course, like any complex part, things can fail. But that's way different than the burden of routine maintenance.

 

That leads me to the question which is important

Is a liquid cooling system like this better than any air cooling solution ? Or are there some advantages with air coolers over water cooling ?

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

That leads me to the question which is important

Is a liquid cooling system like this better than any air cooling solution ? Or are there some advantages with air coolers over water cooling ?

Ahhh! The ever popular performance comparison. Well take a look at the Tom's Hardware review linked below. In recent past, closed loop coolers were only on par with the best air coolers on the market (i.e., it was hard to justify the added cost of a water cooling solution). Now there are closed loop systems on the market that get closer to the performance of open loop setups without the maintenance hassle. As the author noted in the review, noise can be an issue though. The big advantage to the closed loop coolers, in my opinion, is their size. The top of the line NH-D14 air cooler is enormous. It's like hanging a dumbell on your CPU with a crow bar.

 

Bottomline, though the performance gain may be slight, closed loop setups are efficient, high performance and hassle free alternatives.

 

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,3434.html

[HighTowers 1,434]

 

 

The top of the line NH-D14 air cooler is enormous. It's like hanging a dumbell on your CPU with a crow bar.

 

Exactly why I went to water cooling. To get great air cooling, the best ones were huge and heavy. The water cooling setups these days are very compact in comparison. Allows more air flow from the other fans around the case. 

[McLaren 42]

Bottomline, though the performance gain may be slight, closed loop setups are efficient, high performance and hassle free alternatives.

 

 

100% correct, can't agree more. I have had my H100 now for just about a year, have my i7 3770k (delidided) running at 4.8 with no problems, no hassles, and great temps (sub 90 during synthetic stress testing, sub 55 in FSX). 

 

IMO the H100/similar closed-loop coolers are the sweet spot for performance, lack of hassle, and weight/size. 

[hangar 661]

My system is all air cooled...sits idle at 31c and upper 40's in FSX under load...some games bring it up into the mid 50's and I'm overclocked at 4.3Ghtz, so NO, water cooling is not needed, BUT...keep this in mind.

 

The 2 most importnt aspects of air cooling is the that all the wiring inside your case is neatly tucked away so it doesnt interfere with the airflow, and the other aspect of concern is your computer room's ambient temps. If you keep the room nice and cool in the summer months then great, but if you don't use any air conditioning and you want to overclock...well then water cooling may be a better choice.

 

Dont get a small case...get a nice LARGE full tower...the air flow will be better and you'll have more room to work with hands inside...easier to learn how to build your own system for next time :-)

[SimonC 116]

Watercooling:

Pro: silent, easily cool, less dust, practically maintenance free

Contra: expensive to obtain and maintain, provides only the "upper edge" above the good air cooling

 

Necessary? It all depends on you and your requirements

[Guest]

I don't know if ambient temp has been mentioned here yet. During the winter I tried an experiment by placing my Water cooled PC on the roof of my garage and ran the cables in the bathroom window and networked everything to my basement. The tempreture outside was minus 10 to 14 degrees. It worked great. Overclocked to 4.8ghz and the temps were all very good. I plan to make a perminent new home for my next system in my dry but uninsulated attached garage (same temp as outside) and run all of the necessary cables through the wall to my basement. I get up to 4 or even 5 months of sub-zero nights here in the great white north. Sometimes below minus 20! And winter is FS season. expecting OC well over 5ghz. I doubt if water or air make much of a difference in very low ambient temps. If your climate and your home allows I would strongly recommend this.

[Noel 4,494]

 

 

Of course, like any complex part, things can fail.

 

I was reading a post from a sad soul whose H110 developed a leak exposing much of his very pricey components.   Made me start looking at the Noctua!

[martin-w 3,235]

Sort of. Not all water cooling solutions require maintenance. There are a number of good closed loop water cooling units on the market.

 

 

 

Speaking of the massive NH-D14, Tom's Hardware said (referring to the Noctua beast): "Our recent experiences show that heavy coolers damaging motherboards during shipping is now a rule, rather than the exception. We hate to think about what could happen if a system were to fall on its side while supporting two pounds of metal from its PCB."

 

Good point.

I was referring to a full blown water cooling kit. I also mentioned all-in-one water coolers as an option. Both are capable of leaking.

 

As for the weight of the Noctua NH-D14... I've not come across ONE confirmed example, of the Noctua damaging motherboards. Noctua aren't stupid, they did a great job of designing the SecuFirm 2 mounting system.

 

The weight of the D14 should NOT be a concern to anyone. Whether it fits in your case should be. I have owned a plethora of big heavy coolers, fitted to many builds. Not once have I ever had an issue with motherboard damage.

 

When I first ordered my D14, I was all set to fabricate an extra support bracket. However, as soon as I mounted the cooler I realised immediately that the mounting system was excellent, supplying all the support required.

 

The Tom's hardware quote you supply above refers to "heavy coolers" NOT specifically the NH-D14. I don't doubt that there are some coolers out there that don't have the quality support provided by SecuFirm 2.

 

It also refers to "SHIPPING", in other words, the supplier of said PC hasn't packed the PC in a suitable manner. The manufacturer of said PC is obliged to make sure their product is properly packed for shipping.

 

However, I personally would only recommend an ND-D14as an after market cooler, rather than fitted to a pre built PC.

[martin-w 3,235]

Liquid cooling is not necessary at all. There are advantages and flaws compared with air cooling. It's your choice.

 

 

 

Your mean attempt to present people with water cooling solutions as fanatics, and water cooling as bad, risky, nerdy...whatever, maybe is sign of your try to justify your own choice, or you are just jealous? :smile:

 

Please do not try to transfer your fears to other members anymore, if you are unconformable with water cooling stay away from it and do not write such a things at forums anymore. :smile:

 

Your mean attempt to present people with water cooling solutions as fanatics, and water cooling as bad, risky, nerdy

 

Where did I say any of that? You are putting words into my mouth. Words and intentions that were never present.

 

I did NOT say water cooling was "bad". I have considered it myself.

I did not say ALL water cooling enthusiast are fanatics.

Water cooling DOES pose leakage risks.

I did not say water cooling fans are nerds.

I am NOT justifying my own choices, D14 super large coolers are NOT for everyone.

 

You should refrain from putting words into peoples mouths. Words and intentions that were never present.

 

And yes, I have come across water cooling enthusiast that attempt to persuade others to adopt water cooling, whether it's the right choice for that individual or not. I did NOT say this was the norm.

 

Please do not try to transfer your fears to other members anymore, if you are unconformable with water cooling stay away from it and do not write such a things at forums anymore.

 

I have no fears of water cooling. However, leaks are a possibility as we all know. Hence, why the OP should be aware of that.

 

Hope that's clearer for you.

 

P.S. The way you misinterpreted my post, is a clear example of how, those that make choices, will often try to defend their choices, to the extent that they become oversensitive, and unnecessarily defencive.

[martin-w 3,235]

I was reading a post from a sad soul whose H110 developed a leak exposing much of his very pricey components.   Made me start looking at the Noctua!

There are many such examples Noel. Would be interesting to know what percentage of all-in-one coolers leak.

 

I have considered the NZXT Kraken myself, and have been tempted by the Coolermaster Eisberg.

 

However, they don't really offer much better cooling than the D14, one or two degrees. In addition, all-in-one water cooling manufactures tend to cheat. The coolers tend to have higher RPM and thus nosier fans than the D14. The D14 is VERY quiet. If you put the same fans on the D14, the D14 would be ahead.

 

As I say, as a gadget fanatic I have been tempted, but given the examples of leaks, and the excellent performance form the Noctua, I can't justify it.

 

Something else said about the D14, is that it restricts motherboard cooling. This again, is a fallacy. Noctua have proved a centrally mounted 140mm fan. It overhangs the cooler heat sink and thus directs a prodigious amount of air across the motherboard. I tried replacing it with a 120mm focused flow fan. The temps weren't much different, and I lost the MB cooling, so I replaced the 140 fan. Noctua, again, knew what they were doing.

 

RAM clearance is an issue of course. I use Corsair GTX with the top cooling fins removed.

 

I don't know if ambient temp has been mentioned here yet. During the winter I tried an experiment by placing my Water cooled PC on the roof of my garage and ran the cables in the bathroom window and networked everything to my basement. The tempreture outside was minus 10 to 14 degrees. It worked great. Overclocked to 4.8ghz and the temps were all very good. I plan to make a perminent new home for my next system in my dry but uninsulated attached garage (same temp as outside) and run all of the necessary cables through the wall to my basement. I get up to 4 or even 5 months of sub-zero nights here in the great white north. Sometimes below minus 20! And winter is FS season. expecting OC well over 5ghz. I doubt if water or air make much of a difference in very low ambient temps. If your climate and your home allows I would strongly recommend this.

Interesting plan... the only thing that would worry me about that strategy is condensation. Condensation forming inside your PC would be bad news.

 

I may be talking rubbish, but worth considering.

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

 

As for the weight of the Noctua NH-D14... I've not come across ONE confirmed example, of the Noctua damaging motherboards. Noctua aren't stupid, they did a great job of designing the SecuFirm 2 mounting system.

 

...

 

The weight of the D14 should NOT be a concern to anyone. Whether it fits in your case should be. I have owned a plethora of big heavy coolers, fitted to many builds. Not once have I ever had an issue with motherboard damage.

 

...

 

The Tom's hardware quote you supply above refers to "heavy coolers" NOT specifically the NH-D14. I don't doubt that there are some coolers out there that don't have the quality support provided by SecuFirm 2.

 

It also refers to "SHIPPING", in other words, the supplier of said PC hasn't packed the PC in a suitable manner. The manufacturer of said PC is obliged to make sure their product is properly packed for shipping.

 

...

 

 

1. Are you suggesting that, just because you haven't heard of a Noctua cooler damaging a motherboard, it's never happened. My, you really are in the know!

 

2. Re-read the Tom's Hardware article--the whole thing this time. Their reference point is the NH-D14. That's the entire purpose of the article: to compare a handful of closed loop coolers to the venerable NH-D14.

 

3. As to the obligations of manuacturers to package the PC correctly, trust me when I say, no packaging solution defies gravity. If you're aware of a manufacturer that uses zero gravity packaging, let me know. I've never heard of it, but (read reply #1) that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Guest]

 

 

Interesting plan... the only thing that would worry me about that strategy is condensation. Condensation forming inside your PC would be bad news.

 

your right condensation is bad news for your computer but in this senario there is no condensation concern. Condensation will only form on a surface that has a tempreture that is lower than the ambient temp. If the ambient temp is -20 degress and the computer is -19 degress there would be no condensation. So long at the computer hardware temp is higher than the ambient air temp there is no condensation.

[martin-w 3,235]

1. Are you suggesting that, just because you haven't heard of a Noctua cooler damaging a motherboard, it's never happened. My, you really are in the know!

 

No, not at all. However, If such a thing is commonplace, then tell me how come not one report of such an occurrence can be found anywhere on the internet? Noctua aren't stupid, they would not compromise their reputation by not bothering to test their products properly. You are clearly biased against the D14, for some strange reason.

 

 

2. Re-read the Tom's Hardware article--the whole thing this time. Their reference point is the NH-D14. That's the entire purpose of the article: to compare a handful of closed loop coolers to the venerable NH-D14.

 

And if you read your own quote, it did not say the D14 was damaging motherboards. the comment was... "Our recent experiences show that heavy coolers damaging motherboards during shipping is now a rule, rather than the exception"

 

So that's heavy coolers. Not specifically the NH-D14. And it was during shipment. Not during everyday use. At no time have I claimed damage during shipment isn't  feasible. I maintain, that the SecuFirm2 mounting system is perfectly adequate for normal use. I even said that I personally wouldn't recommend the D14 for a pre built system, [just in case] but you seem to have ignored that.

 

 

3. As to the obligations of manuacturers to package the PC correctly, trust me when I say, no packaging solution defies gravity. If you're aware of a manufacturer that uses zero gravity packaging, let me know. I've never heard of it, but (read reply #1) that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.     

 

 

Despite me not recommending the D14 for a pre built system just in case... the right packaging above and below the cooler is all that's required. The simple solution I fabricated prior to the arrival of my D14, held the cooler totally rigid, utterly secure. I ditched it because it simply wasn't required.

 

 

So, can you point me in the direction, of any report, anywhere on the internet of a D14 damaging a motherboard?

 

I accept that shipment issues may be feasible if inadequate precautions are made, but I'd like to see evidence please. I can find none for shipment or normal use.  

 

I find it hard to believe, that if such a thing was an issue, that there would be not even one report of such.

 

To be honest, if your only concern is... "might cause damage if shipped" and given that the purchaser is covered for such shipment damage... you haven't really got much to complain about have you? :smile:

This particular individual secured a weighty Thermalright very simply and effectively. Although I'd expect a supplier to do a better job than just Duct Tape.

 

 

 

I've shipped a computer cross-country, ground shipping UPS, with a Thermalright Ultra120 on it, with a little bit of duct tape holding it to the chassis. Computer is still 100% fine and I've moved 4 times carrying every computer I own up and down stairs, driving on bumpy roads in a moving van, with huge heatsinks mounted. As long as they have a back plate, you should be fine.

 

http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-2079306.html

[martin-w 3,235]

your right condensation is bad news for your computer but in this senario there is no condensation concern. Condensation will only form on a surface that has a tempreture that is lower than the ambient temp. If the ambient temp is -20 degress and the computer is -19 degress there would be no condensation. So long at the computer hardware temp is higher than the ambient air temp there is no condensation.

 

 

 

I'm no expert, so if you think you are safe, fair enough.