Your preferred method of cross-wind landing on a GA

[Great Ozzie 101]

What I read from the FAA manuals is kicking the rudder, but not giving any aileron input to lower the wing into the wind, only to mantain it level.

 

Can you show me where you saw this Alex?

 

 

Lowering the wing would make the same risk of wing tip contacting the surface become real.

 

I sincerely doubt this for a GA trainer... certainly never an issue when I was in the PA-28s

 

 

I wonder if a 18knots crosswind would make the wing tip dangerously close to the surface if I were to maintain the runway alignment using this technique.

 

My concern would be running out of rudder first.  It is a weird feeling hitting the rudder stop and seeing you are still not aligned with the centerline.

 

 

Edit:

 

I decided to google this and found an article I liked on the subject... http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/articles/crosswind_lndg.html

 

Check that out Alex and see what you think.  I like the description and his recommendation for flaps use.  I was in a straight-tail Arrow one particularly gusty night (25G40) but winds were in close alignment with the runway.  I used just 25° flaps and carried quite a bit of airspeed to the runway, raising flaps as soon as the mains were on the ground.

 

Btw... that became an AOPA "Never Again" moment for me... even tho we were getting just moderate chop enroute, the ground (terrain, trees, buildings etc) made for some very turbulent conditions close to the ground... think of "water down the rapids".  This (trying to picture what the wind is doing) is a very important part of the landing process when the winds start to pick up.

[Alec 370]

FAA Airplane Flying Handbook

 

"If the crab method of drift correction has been used
throughout the final approach and roundout, the crab
must be removed the instant before touchdown by
applying rudder to align the airplane’s longitudinal
axis with its direction of movement. This requires
timely and accurate action. Failure to accomplish this
will result in severe side loads being imposed on the
landing gear."

 

They don't mention lowering the wing with this technique, and it's pretty clear since they talk that failure to remove the crab angle would impose severe side load.

 

So, when you all talk about using the Crab Technique, you will lower the wing into the wing a moment before touchdown?

[Great Ozzie 101]

So, when you all talk about using the Crab Technique, you will lower the wing into the wing a moment before touchdown?

 

I cannot ever remember just kicking rudder... 

 

Whenever I used rudder to straighten the nose,  ailerons were going into the wind... and fully deflected (into the wind) after landing.

 

I've seen youtubes of Heavies doing this (rudder kick before touchdown)... what is not clear to me is how much aileron they use.

 

(thanks btw for the AFH quote)

 

 

Edit:

 

That tip was good David.  (just read it)

 

"the longitudinal axis of the aircraft be aligned with the centerline of the runway - this can only be accomplish using a side slip."

 

There you go... I can't see how one could hope to touch down the moment after kicking rudder for alignment. 

[Alec 370]

Yeah, that's what has always made my head refuse the idea of Crab during CrossWind! The moment for the touchdown after removing the crab has to be so precise in order to avoid side loading that makes this idea crazy to me. I like giving some wing the moment before touchdown, that I can accept with no problem!

 

This thread has been amazing for making clear this confusion I had in my head.

[Great Ozzie 101]

This thread has been amazing for making clear this confusion I had in my head.

 

Excellent! Yes... we have had some very good input here ("iron sharpening iron" I like to say as we all benefit).

 

One other point... 

 

Not sure you will see an icy runway in your "neck of the woods"... as a "fwiw" side loading isn't the only concern.  On ice / snow (wet runway?) the correction is crucial for maintaining directional control.

[Dillon 2,197]

Yeah, that's what has always made my head refuse the idea of Crab during CrossWind! The moment for the touchdown after removing the crab has to be so precise in order to avoid side loading that makes this idea crazy to me. I like giving some wing the moment before touchdown, that I can accept with no problem!

 

This thread has been amazing for making clear this confusion I had in my head.

 

 

Remember to keep your ailerons turned into the wind on rollout or your plane could roll off the runway.  Your not done after your aircraft's wheels hit/touch the ground you have to factor the wind on rollout and taxing back to the terminal.  Look for the wind sock for reference.

[David7700 2]

The crab and kick method is a crab until just before the flare and then kicking into a slip. You will need aileron input to keep yourself in the center on the runway.

 

Rudder keeps your nose pointed straight down the runway. The aileron is used to keep the plane over the centerline.

 

By the way, I'm not very good at this either and need some practice. I'd like to get my TW endorsement because I've heard this helps with handling crosswinds in a tricycle gear aircraft like my R172K. I usually slip from a lot further back on final than the flare. I may crab down to the runway approach lights, then start my slip.

 

One benefit of the slip early on is that (if you weren't aware of it, though you should have been) you will be able to quickly determine whether the crosswind exceeds your rudder input.

 

There isn't a right or wrong answer, but airlines typically do crab and kick because passengers don't like the feeling during a pronounced slip in high winds. So they enter the slip during the flare.

 

So as I'm entering the slip, I'm pushing down on the rudder pedal away from the wind to bring my nose around and keep it pointed down the runway. Then I'm using ailerons, upwind wing low, cross controlled, to stay centered on the runway. It's that cross controlled, near-stall configuration that requires some extra airspeed to avoid the stall.