Hobby Becoming Expensive

[LawnDart 19]

I agree.. and I don't see all these add-on companies pony-ing up the cash for FSUIPC..What I DO see is these add-on companies writing their own. IN the scope of all FS things, an FSUIPC-type DLL isn't all that difficult to write...

[fspaan 1]

Well, this year is the most expensive one for me related to Flightsimulation! Due to some savings I was finally able to buy equipment of Goflight (in total now over 500 euros and I have order the new TQ6 throttle,4 levers). In total I believe I have spent over 600 euros now. Not even counting the money for upgrading my PC's.But I believe many developers who used to develop freely have observed that they cannot always continue doing this. They have a real life and family as well and this is getting expensive too. Next to this they do not always get the respect they deserve from us for developing freely. Take for example Peter Dowson who always developed freely, but finally decided to go into the moneymaking business of Flightsimulation. He even tried to use paypal to see how people would appreciate his work financially. (At least that is what I read from the forums) I guess this was not satisfactional and I agree with him to make his work commercial. I still believe that Paypal could have potential. Just pay what you think the application is worth. But be honest and explain why you transfer that amount of money so those developers can learn from it or defend the arguments.Flightsimulation is getting a more professional business nowadays and is growing and improving steadily. Lucky for us, bad for our wallet. I agree that sometimes it is not worth it to buy typical addons. But the same goes with the freeware. Maybe we have to be more critic to ourselfs before buying? You cannot have all can you? Because if you buy the addon you have to make sure you benefit from it when you use it. Maybe we have to put more effort in reviews?To give an example: I love to simulate KLM flights. One reason for me not to buy the Airbus addons, simply because they do not own an Airbus yet (am I right?). On the other hand I own a copy of PSS747 and Dreamfleet 737. I wait to purchase PMDG aircraft once they get stable and 'baby-errors' have been removed. I will just wait till some business company will stand up and build a B747 comparable with PSS747 and PIC767 or even more sofisticated simulated aircrafts.My ultimate dream is to have a home cockpit of a B747. But I know it is not affordable so I look for alternatives....dream on....I believe many companies see flightsimulation as their core business or cashcow. Lucky for us... bad for the wallet...Just my 02 cents

[Guest]

If you think it's too expensive try taking flying lessons in a real aircraft and after that buying and maintaining one...

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Actually, on the FSUIPC issue: I believe that it should be the individual delveloper(s) responsibility to make their product interface correctly with the sim..I don't think that selling an interface is necesarily the proper solution to the bigger problem or issue. The fact that a seperate interface is required is probably an issue with MS rather than the community itself..I find it very odd that MS supporting addon developers, we have to make our own interfaces...THIS IS NO SLAM AGAINST MS..but just an odd occurance in our hobby.

[Guest JDiaz]

Agreed!I think products should be charged what they're WORTH. And if someone comes out from the get go as a payware group then it's your responsibility and you buy what you feel is worth your money.I think for a product like FSUIPC to go the payware route conviniently at a time when FS2004 is coming out and the FS2002 version won't work with FS2004 is a bit fishy to me and the fact that a 25 fee is being charged and that's a SALE price mind you not even the final full price is a bit of a slap in the face knowing that people NEED the program and he can charge what he likes and basically use people. It's not a matter of cheapness like others accuse. It's a matter of doing what's right. If he can't manage his time and it's taking TOO much of his time that it's intruding on his job then he's too into the hobby and needs to step back.Interestingly I've noticed a program in the libary that might be a new freeware version of what FSUIPC basically does. So let's see what happens.Again, I'll gladly pay for a product I think is worth it's price, but when you try n take advantage of something people really need knowing a new FS is coming out so you up the charge a lot is just as bad as piracy.

[Guest Dan CYKA]

>I think products should be charged what they're WORTH. And if>someone comes out from the get go as a payware group then it's>your responsibility and you buy what you feel is worth your>money.I agree with you here. I liken it to a car manufacturer building a car with no engine. If you want to drive it then you have to buy the motor add-on for it. I am in agreement that a developer should be able to supply the WHOLE product that will work when they sell it.>>I think for a product like FSUIPC to go the payware route>conviniently at a time when FS2004 is coming out and the>FS2002 version won't work with FS2004 is a bit fishy to me and>the fact that a 25 fee is being charged and that's a SALE>price mind you not even the final full price is a bit of a>slap in the face knowing that people NEED the program and he>can charge what he likes and basically use people. It's not a>matter of cheapness like others accuse. It's a matter of>doing what's right. I really don't think Pete planned this to the timing of COF at all. Have you even remotly considered the time and energy Pete has spent on this program. I really believe that Pete has been extremly generous to the simming community. Go have a look at his web site and just see what he has given us. As with any hobby there is a question of supply and demand. If you just want to fly an out of the package product from MS, they have gone above and beyond with what you can do with their simming product. MSFS is an extremly well made product. Now if you really, really want to get into the hobby then there are alot of add-ons and programs, that can take the experiance to the next level and beyond. The choice is all up to you. Why should anybody feel that they owe you anything at all for free? They designed it, planned it, and built it. Why not get something in return for your hard work. Try to think of it in the sense of an entertainer. They work hard to develop their skill in music or acting,and then sell it to the public to enjoy. It is entirly up to you if you want to bring your $20.00 CD up to a $50.00 concert. Well, is not a flightsim add-on builder much the same? They developed a skill and then they put it out for others to enjoy should they choose to do so. No one has ever said that you must buy the product.>If he can't manage his time and it's>taking TOO much of his time that it's intruding on his job>then he's too into the hobby and needs to step back.That comment was just uncalled for. Pete has given an EXTREME amount of time to the hobby. All for free. I am not sure what you have donated to the hobby, but, I would really be hard pressed to compare it to what Pete has given to us.>>Interestingly I've noticed a program in the libary that might>be a new freeware version of what FSUIPC basically does. So>let's see what happens.There ya go. Have at er'. I am willing to bet that if that same product gets well used, and can come to the level the FSUIPC does, you will more then likely see it go payware also. Enjoy the genurosity of the developer while you can and then be sure to thank them for all their hard work to improve the hobby when it comes time to contribute so they can carry on.>>Again, I'll gladly pay for a product I think is worth it's>price, but when you try n take advantage of something people>really need knowing a new FS is coming out so you up the>charge a lot is just as bad as piracy.Again, nobody "really needs" FSUIPC to make MSFS work. The sim will work very well without it. Hell I used FS2K for 6 months before I even knew that such an item was out there. I was very happy with MSFS and how it worked. When I found that there was a whole new level to this hobby, it really became a hobby. Spending money to improve the hobby is what being a true hobbiests is part of. To develop your hobby and contribute to make it that much better is what the community is all about. If you can design a great plane, awsome. If you make a real good weather generator, great. If you can develop a real neat ATC program, super. If all you can do is contribute some cash to help the developers make those products better, then you are just as important to the hobby.

[Guest tgabriel]

A little too expensive?How? In having to buy all the addons?Don't buy them. To date I have over 2GB of addons from freeware. I have not bought a thing and there is no way in the world I will ever fly all the planes in my posession. That said, there are endless opportunities for my family to buy something at Xmas or birthday besides a tie I will never wear or another package of underwear. Since the addons I lust after all cost under $50, gift times will run out long before gifts.If everything were to go payware tomorrow I would be set for the rest of my life with planes to fly. Also, it is my observation that virtual airlines if you go that way offer planes and repaints of default planes for no cost. I compare this hobby with some others like my wife's penchant for collecting figurines or shoes and figure I am the cheapest sob in the house!Another point about this hobby is that the enormous majority of folks who have a flight simulator do not do anything with it. Similarly, how many sets of golf clubs or x-c skis or whatever else you can mention are moldering away in closets or garages.Those of us who use flight sims are pretty lucky to have an abundance of free stuff to make it more interesting and useful. Thanks to the freeware guys, we can fly to distant areas and see reasonably accurate depictions of the actual area, to wit: Big Creek landing strip in the Idaho Primitive area is very realistically depicted by a hobbiest from McCall, Idaho who made it for his VA. If you know the url of the VA, you can download the software for free. This phenomenon exists all over the internet. You just have to be able to find the stuff.An expensive hobby?Hardly.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

I think what we're seeing in the FS community is similar to when we used to go to bbs's for our files..then the internet came.FS has now evolved into something much more that simple wire polygons and ega graphics...it is no longer a simple matter to make an add-on..the sim itself has progressed and so has our need/want for products with more features jam packed in them.I think that having Pete around was more of a convenience..now we get into the "death of freeware" topic as some people have put it. As we progressed into having the internet and the sim itself has progressed..we are starting to generate our own economy (industry)...now granted, we are in the busines of making money from something we all love, but that doesn't change the facts..we almost need to have the money if we are going to progress any further and continue to push the envelope of providing great products. Maybe MS envisioned this for their sim (individual companies relying on the sim thus the individual companies generating wants for their products, therefore keeping a need around for the sim itself--not a bad thought really..we have a continuous source of income this way). What I see happening are these individual payware companies evolving into very large companies and possibly branching off into other games or simulators. This may seem Star Trek'ish...but I think it's more a simple fact of evolution.As much as I have appriciated all the freeware over the years..I think the benefits of having payware far outway the con's..I think some of the biggest payoffs will be alot better customer support, quality, more features, and eventually price reductions for the products as more developers get more products into the market.Anyways..that's my 2cents worth.

[Guest cw1011]

It's always been expensive -- not the add ons, the computers! The forums are full of people who are dropping $1,500 to $3,000 to upgrade for MSFS 2004. I have a lot of trouble taking someones complaint about a $20 program when they are driving a p4 3.0 gig machine...Colin

[Guest]

"I will just wait till some business company will stand up and build a B747 comparable with PSS747 and PIC767 or even more sofisticated simulated aircrafts"It was made already six years ago :-) www.aerowinx.deTon

[Guest BrianC]

Total Files in Library: 33564 Most of that is freeware. You don't want to pay for stuff? Don't pay for stuff. There are plenty of choices.

http://brianc.vip.warped.com/kpwk_sig.gif

[Guest tgabriel]

Not bad for $260

[Guest]

Hi,If you have to pay it in once it is quite a lot of money. But in terms "value for money" it is cheap: I have seen professional one

[Guest]

>Not bad for $260For a DOS program that's now officially out of support...

[Guest]

You mean DOS or the sim? :-) :-)Ton