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Guest glnflwrs

Alternating rudder technique

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Guest en_final

Hello there,How many of you have used or still use the alternating rudder technique (swinging rudder) when encounter wake turbulence either at departure or arrival?The reason for this question is to get some feedback on the following article found in the New York Times on October 12th, 2004. Here is the link : http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/nyregion/12crash.htmlLet's start a discussion about this technique. Juliet Lima

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Guest glnflwrs

It seems you need to register to get to the article you reference. If it's free I'll be back.Glenn"If God would have wanted man to fly He would have given him more money"

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Guest Peter Sidoli

I do not understand the use of rudder from side to side. I do believe the MU2 does not have conventional aelerons and a dropping wing at low speed is recovered by using the rudder to help pick the wing up.I ahave also heard of a military technique for commencing a balanced turn which requires initially adding rudder to commence the turn and then pulling the turn and slip ball central with aelerons,Using the rudder at higher speeds especially from side to side doesnt make sense!Peter

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Guest glnflwrs

The only time I have heard of alternating rudder usage is when a heavy rolls out of a steep turn at lower speeds and encounters a "French Roll". (Not to be confused with Paris Pastries or the aerobatics maneuver with that name.) A French Roll is when the aircraft is rolling side to side but ailerons are not effective at lower speeds and the rolling gets worse. ATP and Commercial pilots are taught to counter the rolling with opposite rudder while using the elevators and ailerons to keep the nose straight ahead and on the horizon. If the plane is rolling side to side you would need to alternate the rudder left and right. Whether this ocurred I don't know and the article was vague about that. Glenn"If God would have wanted man to fly He would have given him more money"

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Guest Peter Sidoli

GlennBut an aircraft rolling side to side wouldnt require large rudder movements as this would make matters worse.You must have seen the newbie pilots who are all over the shop because of excessive control inputs.In the situation you refer to small inputs and a gentle squeeze is what is needed. Large inputs would just cause a pendulum effect.As speed increases so does the effectiveness of controls. At slow speed as in flairing an aircraft to land you may use the full control movement.Because the speed is slow there is going to be very little loading on the aircraft.At high speed only a tiny movement is needed and the forces to make more than a tiny movement are huge.In this situation overstressing an aircraft is very possible and we are not talking of just through the rudder.Really this smacks of bad piloting with a good dose of panic.Peter

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Guest bobsk8

I couldn't read the article either, but It might be referring to the Airbus crash in New York a few years ago that is blamed on the Pilots using full rudder swings to counteract turbulence from a plane 5 miles away. To be honest, I have always felt that the cause of that crash had nothing to do with the pilots flying the aircraft. If you remember back to that time, the government was saying that it was just an accident, not terrorism, within hours after the crash, and it was right after 911 when it happened. Reason I feel this way is , I have never heard of a commercial airliner that had it's tail fall off in flight , and why would the very experienced Airline Pilots use full rudder swings to control the plane anyway? I have flown quite a few approaches on a Airline Training Sim for the 767-400, and the instructor pilot had me use stabs of rudder on final approach to line up with the runway when slightly off, rather than using airlerons. He said that the tendency to induce a wing up and down type rolling was less using the rudder.

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Guest glnflwrs

You're absolutely right, Peter, even when recovering from French Roll small, gentle inputs are what's called for. I also agree that, no matter what "notices" were published nor by whom, a good, experienced pilot would not use full, alternating rudder deflection at anytime, that would be against all he'd ever learned. This does smell like inexperience and an attempt to hide it, if there was no other, evident cause.Glenn"If God would have wanted man to fly He would have given him more money"

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