Back to FSX and new to DX10 - perfs...

[Osirith 14]

Hi all,

 

I am using flight sim software since... at least Sublogic Flight Simulator 1 on Apple II...

During the last few years I was more involved in military flight sims (IL2, DCS A-10 mostly) but I now feel the need to restart some activity in civilian sims... I had used FS 2004 for quite some time, using IVAO/VATSIM. I bought FSX when it came out but the quality of the program when it was first published was probably a reason for me to switch to other sims...

 

Being a bit tired of flying the A-10 over Georgia (DCS A-10), I wanted a few weeks ago to start again flying liners and the most possible realistic environment. So I did gather the several FSX compatible programs I already have and bought several others.

 

I installed all this and started flying (737 NGX) but was a bit unsatisfied by graphic performance and visual aspect... That was when I found the DX10 forum in AVSIM B)

So I did a fresh, complete reinstall this weekend, using DX10 set-up, and the result is quite ok most of the time (steady 30 FPS, buit I notice big slow-downs around large airports (without scenery add-on).

 

Let me describe in detail my configuration :

 

PC :

i3770K mildly OC'ed to 4.0 GhZ, 16 Gb RAM, Z77 Asus Formula V mb, ASUS Matrix Platinum HD7970 3 Gb, Windows 8/64 running on system SSD, another SSD dedicated to FSX and add-ons, Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, display DELL U2713HM 2560x1440.

 

FSX : installed on a dedicated SSD

FSX Deluxe/SP1/SP2 using DX10 preview, DX10 Shader Patch 3.2.2, most tweaks applied from the "How To..." doc here

fsx.cfg initially modified as per bojote website, then tweaked a bit more (I can post my fsx.cfg content if you need it)

Using RadeonPro for advanced graphic settings, mostly AA and DFC limiter to 30 FPS.

 

FSX add-ons :

Ultimate Terrain X - Europe, GEX - Europe

REX Essential + Overdrive, not using weather engine. Set-up to use 1024 textures.

ActiveSky 2012, not using graphics.

RadarContact, Ultimate Traffic 2

PMDG 737 NGX

A few airports add-ons

 

 

So, when I fly with stock FSX aircraft on a "standard" airport and scenery (including AS/REX weather and UT2 traffic), I almost always get solid 30 FPS with no artifacts or stuttering on my 2560x1440 display (I am using windowed mode to be able to switch to some add-ons, with the tweak to use borderless window frame).

 

But I noticed several cases where my FPS drops to 13-15, which is IMHO a bit rude with such a config (I can probably overclock a bit more, but that's not the point).

 

- Flying around some complex areas : If I try LFPG (Paris Roissy - Charles de Gaulle ; I live near Paris), using stock airport (no add-on, except what brings UTX/GEX) and UT2 traffic (75% liners setting, 25% GA), when I am on ground or in close visual flight, my FPS drops to 13 :angry:

 

- PMDG 737 NGX : VC drops framerate around 20-25 sometimes, but seems to vary, I need to further investigate this (just a few quick trials yesterday). BUT If I use the head-up display, frames drops a further 10, which is at the lower limit of playability - if I use 737 VC + HUD in LFPG, my FPS should be around 10-13.

 

Do you think that with my PC config and software, getting such FPS is more or less normal ? or should I start tweaking fsx.cfg/RadeonPro settings a bit more with your help ?

 

As said, I can post my fsx.cfg and RadeonPro settings here.

Thanks for reading and for your help !

 

Chris

 

 

[Mork 34]

The trick as always is tweaking to benefit all of your hardware, it all custom tailoring when it comes to tweaking FSX.

 

Be sure to also check Word Not Allowed's guide as it sums up all known tweaks and you can try several things for yourself, but start SIMPLE.

I would delete your fsx.CFG if i were you (or rename it) and then let FSX create a new one by starting FSX.

 

Apply the MUSTHAVES (HIMEM fix, DX10 preview etc) and for me it also is the usepools=0.

Also try with FPS set to unlimited  in FSX and using an external FPS limiter. I use the simple java thingy you can find easily on the internet. For me that helps a bit too.

 

Also adjust your sliders. I recommend starting with autogen set at normal, not any higher and Scenery complexity at one or two nudges to the left.

 

Then try again if the results are still not what you want them to be. It will drive you crazy, but tweaking and FSX are like twins, one comes with the other.

[Chris198 1]

Using traffic in FSX is always a big fps-killer ! I fly mostly with just 20% airline traffic (MyTrafficX) and I can see a huge fps-drop compared to 0% traffic !

Try to turn the traffic sliders down and see the difference. With 20% traffic (in my case with MyTrafficX) I get all the bigger Airports quite well populated.

Your fps-issues with the HUD (HGS) is another peoblem that I did never see, mmm, may be a Radeon issue ?

[Osirith 14]

The trick as always is tweaking to benefit all of your hardware, it all custom tailoring when it comes to tweaking FSX.

 

Be sure to also check Word Not Allowed's guide as it sums up all known tweaks and you can try several things for yourself, but start SIMPLE.

I would delete your fsx.CFG if i were you (or rename it) and then let FSX create a new one by starting FSX.

 

Apply the MUSTHAVES (HIMEM fix, DX10 preview etc) and for me it also is the usepools=0.

Also try with FPS set to unlimited  in FSX and using an external FPS limiter. I use the simple java thingy you can find easily on the internet. For me that helps a bit too.

 

Also adjust your sliders. I recommend starting with autogen set at normal, not any higher and Scenery complexity at one or two nudges to the left.

 

Then try again if the results are still not what you want them to be. It will drive you crazy, but tweaking and FSX are like twins, one comes with the other.

 

Thanks for your advices Mork,

I can try a fresh new fsx.cfg when I come back from work this evening (will do it). However, my conf is only 2 days old (reinstalled everything starting with FSX on a new disk) and I just applied tweaking advices from bojote web site and from Word Not Allowed guide, while following steps to use DX10 with latest shader patch.

 

I made different tries with UsePools=0 or 1 and different PoolSize, seems to have little effect to the fps.

 

Using traffic in FSX is always a big fps-killer ! I fly mostly with just 20% airline traffic (MyTrafficX) and I can see a huge fps-drop compared to 0% traffic !

Try to turn the traffic sliders down and see the difference. With 20% traffic (in my case with MyTrafficX) I get all the bigger Airports quite well populated.

Your fps-issues with the HUD (HGS) is another peoblem that I did never see, mmm, may be a Radeon issue ?

 

Chris198, thanks for your reply. I will try to completely remove UT2 traffic (setting sliders to 0 in UT2 - they are already at 0 inside FSX), just to see if there is a difference in fps.

About the HGS frame rate drop : I have no clue yet. I did not notice such a drop when I was using DX9, maybe some setting in RadeonPro... Should made more trials on this one..

[cvearl 60]

Hi Chris. I know that some will maybe tell you it might be the Radeon. Just telling you up front it is not. I have a great PC Hardware store nearby with a 2 week return policy so I took advantage. Last month I went through the exercise of buying different cards from both camps and testing FSX in DX9 and 10. I settled on a Gigabyte HD 7970 Ghz clocked card . There is almost no difference between ATI and NVidia in FSX at all besides subtle differences in how the AA and AF look. But performance wise, dollar for dollar you are looking at the same thing. You have a wicked card there bro. AMD equivalent to the nVidia GTX 670/680 which is a smoking card too. I have a friend with a GTX680 and we compare from time to time as we fly online together and we see basically the same framerates in our scenarios. As for your situation, you have several things working against you. I am 90% sure it is the same as anyone else trying to run what you are (at least so far as being in DX10).

 

As for your post here, you have a few things working against you.

 

1. You are running a higher than average resolution. Not a huge deal but that counts when taking into account using "SuperSample AA". Are you? I am using 4xSSAA (SuperSample AA mode forced in RadeonPro with AA set to "use Application Settings" and AA enabled in FSX) in DX9 and DX10 FSX. 4xSSAA is my safe AA mode for all weather all areas so as to stay at 30 locked as much as possible.

 

2. Your hard scenarios (Large Airports/dense autogen/lots of traffic/PMDG) are CPU limited. Especially at 4.0Ghz. I am clocked to 4.2 and I have friends at 4.4 and 4.6 with overclocked GTX 680's and they don't like having traffic on at all. As soon as they add traffic and fly into large airports with bad weather in PMDG, they get into the low 20's as well. The other night flying out of Kelowna BC (KYLW) in DX10 with the PMDG JS41 and overcast weather with a bit of low visibility created by ASE real time weather, his setup's FPS dropped into the high teens! Huh? Ouch. I was still high 20's somehow same weather. I would push up to 4.2 for a bit and see how that goes. It is the safe overclock on the last 3 builds I have done with 2600k and one 3770. My friend runs his 3770 at 4.4 but has an after market cooler. It will help. FSX performance ramps directly with CPU clock.

 

Look we run nearly identical setups. I will try my JS41 at that airport and see what I get. But I have a few tests you can try...

 

1. Try Fullscreen mode. Does that improve your situation? Especially when the NGX hud is in use?

2. bump the clock to 4.2 or even 4.4 if you have an aftermarket cooler.

3. REM out some of the other tweaks for now like USEPOOLS or whatever. Just stick with Highmemfix and wideviewapsect=true for now. Remming them out with a semicolon ( before the line is safe and you can put them back easily.

4. if you are using the MultiSamplesPerPixel=8 line to get 8xSSAA, rem it out for now to go to 4xSSAA.

 

Any change? I'll try your scenario and report back.

 

I would also like you to know... If you were to go back to DX9, Bojote's SM 3.0 mod (I consider it a patch) makes the clouds almost no load at all!!!! He swapped the cloud rendering to Shader Model 3.0 (which it should have been all along) and wow. I can drill holes in 4 layers of 8x8 clouds at 4xSSAA and maxed weather sliders locked at 30 fps! My friend with the GTX680 gets 22 - 24. B) Although I do get about 26 - 28 in DX10 mode in the same test. Just saying if you DID go back to DX9, you NEED that SM 3.0 patch. And if you want DX10 as an option... You must do it in this order...

 

1. Uninstall DX10 patch per the readme.

2. install the DX9 SM 3.0 patch per the instructions (painless and safe)

3. Install the DX10 patch.

 

All while making sure you flush shaders in between and also when swapping back and fourth. Reason you install DX10 after is because the SM 3.0 patch replaces the whole FSX shader folder in the FSX root (it backs the old one up) so you would have to rerun the DX10 to replace the DX10 file again. 

 

Charles.

[Osirith 14]

<p>Hello Charles, thanks for your very extensive reply <img class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png" title="B)" /></p>

<p> </p>

<p><span style="color: #4b0082"><strong>GPU </strong></span>: Even if nVidia is traditionnally preferred by FS users, as you said I think that my ATI HD7970 Matrix Platinum is far than enough to do the job. With RadeonPro tool I am able to tweak any needed parameter as well as with any nVidia card and this is quite a monster GPU, never been able to overwhelm it with any high end game even at my standard res of 2560x1440.</p>

<p> </p>

<p><span style="color: #4b0082"><strong>CPU </strong></span>: I know that my overclock is quite small, I will probably try to push it more and see how far I can get. The Asus Formula V Maximus is quite good for overclockers, and I have an aftermarket air cooler that should be able to cool the CPU enough for going at least to 4.4/4.5 Ghz I Guess (even if I did choose my PC components more for silence than overclocking).</p>

<p> </p>

<p><span style="color: #4b0082"><strong>Full Screen mode </strong></span>: I will try full screen mode to see if there is any difference with windowed mode. However, if there is such difference it could be impractical to use as I frequently need to switch back to some add-ons (FS Commander for air route, Radar Contact while setting up flight) and if I do that in full screen mode I will sometimes crash FSX... I also have thought that I am using a upper than average resolution, and I agree it can play some role in the FPS I get.</p>

<p> </p>

<p><span style="color: #4b0082"><strong>AA settings </strong></span>: I will try to tune down some AA settings and see what I get, even if this GPU is able to cope with heavy AA/Aniso settings at this resolution.</p>

<p> </p>

<p><span style="color: #4b0082"><strong>DX10/DX9 </strong></span>: I hope to be able to stay with DX10, as it seems to have many advantages... However, the trick to use DX10 shader on DX9 could be interesting, if need be (but if I understand what I have read somewhere in the forum, an upcoming version of the shader patch should remove the last DX10 limitations with some add-ons...).</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I will try all these tests in a few hours after geting back to house, and let you know about the results. Chris</p>

[cvearl 60]

I tested a few things for you quickly. I do not own the PMDG NGX but I do have the JS41. Which BTW is a bit heavier on performance if you can believe it. At least as far as a few friends I have that fly both.

 

These are screenshots from your scenario - LFPG using stock airport   (75% liners setting, 25% GA) I don't have Ultimate Traffic. But I did set my traffic sliders in FSX to what you posted here.

 

I am using REX 1024 based textures loaded. Very high density Scenery and Dense AG set in FSX. Oh and this is 4xSSAA. Which in DX10, AA on in FSX = defaulted to 4 samples (4X) and I have the Mode slider in RadeonPro to SuperSample. 16xAF (High Quality) ect. DFC at 30 and unlimited in FSX with vSync forced. My LOD radius is 4.5 though. I get tired of changing it as I bounce around a lot in settings and it resets. Ah well. Minor issue.

 

Lastly.... Airport Vehicle Density. I leave it off. When I start adding Airport Vehicles and Road traffic the fps start to bleed off.

 

Click to see full screen. Last 2 shots are with 8xSSAA and some overcast weather.

 

 

 

[Paul J 349]

I guess I need to modify the How-to doc just a little bit, guys, as I can see from a number of posts here that there's a perception that moving to DX10 graphic standard is arrived at by just changing a few settings to what the doc says, and then flying..... There's a lot more to getting those constant 30 frames, and it's not done as quickly as the doc implies (actually, not even when using DX9, either!), as all pc's are as different as we, as people are, and it's certainly not a quick "moved to DX10 yesterday, and see no difference" change. One can barely absorb all that's in that doc, nor follow up on the many recommendations it makes, such as reading Phil Taylor's SP2 Blog (here) in one evening. 

 

There are a number of considerations that have to be taken into account if a solid 30 is desired - and whether one is going to get them - or not. The one most important sentence from Phil's blog is this:-

 

"I should note, for instance, that the DX10 code path performs better under load than the DX9 code path, and this means the DX10 features are more usable." 

 

1). Understanding DX9 technology vs DX10. The major technical difference - memory management.

2). Expectations and goals. Analysing what one has, and can it be changed? Reality check.

3). The system components - matching: fast CPU with slow GPU: slow CPU with fast GPU. Monitor(s)

4). BIOS settings - the overclock; to meet expectations - a minimum clock speed of 4.6 GHz. 

5). The version of Windows:

6). The normal OS configuration/optimization: Windows Aero; Paging: UAC; Fragmentation; Drivers:

7). The OS configuration/optimization just prior to running FSX. Background process management.

8). FSX location.

9). Testing plan: This is a must.

10). FSX configuration for testing: the scenario. DX10 responds differently to fsx.cfg settings vs DX9

11). Test logging and documenting.

 

I can only demonstrate by my own experience,  which took several weeks of long days of testing, (hundreds of consecutive pics of the Vancouver testing area were published) and by that of most of the "TeamSpeak - TeamViewer" sessions I've undertaken with others - if that regimen is followed - then the result will be the ability to handle most weather, most areas, most airports, moderate traffic, the "NGX" (everyone's "heavy" example), at a reliable 29 - 30 fps with the occasional dip down to 25 - but rarely below that.

The rewards for me, have been well worth the effort, with some gravy applied through the honor of testing Steve's patches, now the (successful) DX10 Scenery Fixer application itself, and my continuous reading of the number of FSX simmers that are becoming confirmed "DX10'ers".

 

Thanks for reading, and I hope this helps, and hasn't caused too many of you to go away, shaking your heads.

 

All the Best,

[Osirith 14]

Thanks for all those replies and help.

 

I am currently testing several settings based on your replies.

 

I will keep you informed of the results (and maybe more questions) as soon as possible.

 

Chris

[Mork 34]

Maybe the most underlooked "setting" is the actual plane and scenery you are going to fly. I have this all the time.

I start flying with the NGX with FS2Crew at a major airport, great clouds and a good amount of AI and my FPS is around 20 on average, with occasional dips into the mid/low teeans when moving.
This bothers me and I exit FSX and start tweaking down a bit till i get 25 fps on average in above settings with dips to high teens. In the air i get 30 fps constantly.

A couple of days later i decide to fly into an OrbX region with the Duke with FPS 30 constant and then im thinking... I can pump up the eyecandy!

For some reason i can't stop tweaking and testing until I think I have the best results possible, but when I change my mind about the plane and the scenery i am gonna fly in, all my requirements change and you have to adept the settings accordingly (unfortunately).

The NGX at KJFK/KSFO/EHAM with lots of AI jets and cloudy weather is very hard on a system, where as flying in VFR country with a singleprop on a beautiful day is MUCH easier and handle a lot more detail without killing the smoothness.

 

It's all one big balancing act.

[Paul J 349]

This is true, Mark! It's the reason I built a 6-choice menuing system with a few extras built in. I always found it to be a pain in the butt!   :lol:

[cvearl 60]

Maybe the most underlooked "setting" is the actual plane and scenery you are going to fly. I have this all the time.

I start flying with the NGX with FS2Crew at a major airport, great clouds and a good amount of AI and my FPS is around 20 on average, with occasional dips into the mid/low teeans when moving.

This bothers me and I exit FSX and start tweaking down a bit till i get 25 fps on average in above settings with dips to high teens. In the air i get 30 fps constantly.

A couple of days later i decide to fly into an OrbX region with the Duke with FPS 30 constant and then im thinking... I can pump up the eyecandy!

For some reason i can't stop tweaking and testing until I think I have the best results possible, but when I change my mind about the plane and the scenery i am gonna fly in, all my requirements change and you have to adept the settings accordingly (unfortunately).

The NGX at KJFK/KSFO/EHAM with lots of AI jets and cloudy weather is very hard on a system, where as flying in VFR country with a singleprop on a beautiful day is MUCH easier and handle a lot more detail without killing the smoothness.

 

It's all one big balancing act.

Great reply. Your experience mirrors many of us. Its refreshing to hear someone with a GTX670 (7970 like performance) and 4.6ghz i7 CPU be honest about performance. No matter how beefy the system, you can chuck enough stuff into FSX to drag even the most robust systems into the ground. I hate when a good discussion is going down and someone pops in stating that they get 60fps over some huge airport in some heavy aircraft model in bad weather with sliders maxed. Of course we all know its BS. You always find later they don't have decent AA settings or use a low res and dont use Vsync and are flying over default scenery. Stuff like that.

 

I try to dial in one setting to give me the best average. Like you I back off a few sliders to get my JS41 regional flights into and out of large airports in marginal weather with 25+ fps.Then of course, later wanna fly a smaller model around rurrural areas and want to crank the scenery up. Its actually not that annoying to just pop into the settings though. I wish the extreme settings were not available in fsx. Then I would just be content with dense and very dense. For all flights. Lol.

 

C.

[Osirith 14]

Hi all,

and thanks for all your replies so far B)

 

I have done several tests in the last few days with different settings, taking screenshots and writing down FPS results. I will try to post those as soon as possible today if I find some spare time.

 

All tests were done with DX10 / 2560x1440 / AA (with RadeonPro)

Scenery :UTX / GEX

 

Tests :

 

[*   ] - simple scenery (LFRS with no addon) / complex scenery (LFPG with MegaAirport addon)

[****] - no traffic / heavy traffic (Ultimate Traffic 2 75% at LFPG)

[**  ] - no weather / fair weather (REX 1024) / heavy clouds/overcast (REX 1024)

[    ]- ground / in flight

[*   ] - external view / cockpit view / virtual cockpit view

[**  ] - simple aircraft (FSX) / complex add-on (737 NGX)

 

As expected, there is a large frame rate gap between [simple scenery / no traffic / no weather / external view / simple aircraft] and [complex scenery / heavy traffic / heavy weather / vc view / complex aircraft add-on] :lol:

 

Each type of test (above) is ranked (number of *) depending on impact on frame rate for my PC config. This is by no means a very scientific approach, but if the global sum of settings is equal or less than 4 stars (****), I get a smooth, 30 fps flight.

 

Exemple :

• complex scenery with mega airport add-on + heavy clouds in REX : able to keep 30 fps
• adding traffic : FPS drops to 15-20
• simple scenery, no weather, traffic : able to keep 30 fps

Those results are not surprising I guess. I am able to keep 30 fps in most cruise flight situation even in VC in 737NGX, except in very severe weather (many cloud layers, lot of clouds, ...).

 

Also quite "standard" : worse settings is taxiing the PMDG 737NGX at large airports (LFPG, EGLL, EDDM) using mega-airports add-ons, while using Ultimate Traffic II at 75% and with overcast weather. I get around 15-17 fps, which is not awesome but still manageable...

 

I will post complete settings (including fsx.cfg) and screeshots later.

 

Chris

[Osirith 14]

Ok, here are complete tests results.

 

Reminder : 

 

PC :

i3770K mildly OC'ed to 4.0 GhZ, 16 Gb RAM, motherboard Z77 Asus Formula V, gc ASUS Matrix Platinum HD7970 3Gb, Windows 8/64 running on system SSD, another SSD dedicated to FSX and add-ons, Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, display DELL U2713HM 2560x1440.

 

FSX : installed on a dedicated SSD

FSX Deluxe/SP1/SP2 using DX10 preview, DX10 Shader Patch 3.2.2, most tweaks applied from the "How To..." doc here

fsx.cfg main settings : see below

Using RadeonPro for advanced graphic settings, see below.

 

FSX add-ons :

Ultimate Terrain X - Europe, GEX - Europe

REX Essential + Overdrive, not using weather engine. Set-up to use 1024 textures.

ActiveSky 2012, not using graphics.

RadarContact

Ultimate Traffic 2 with 75% traffic (25% GA)

PMDG 737 NGX, FS2Crew 737

A few airports add-ons (mega airports LFPG, EDDM, EHAM, EGLL, LGSK)

 

fsx.cfg :

[GRAPHICS]

HIGHMEMFIX=1

D3D10=1

TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=1024

EFFECTS_QUALITY=2

GROUND_SHADOWS=0

TEXTURE_QUALITY=3

IMAGE_QUALITY=0

ForceWindowedVsync=1

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=0

 

[JOBSCHEDULER]

AffinityMask=14

 

[DISPLAY]

BLOOM_EFFECTS=1

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30

WideViewAspect=True

 

[MAIN]

FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.10

 

[DISPLAY.Device.AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series.0]

Mode=2560x1440x32

Anisotropic=1

AntiAlias=1

 

[sCENERY]

LENSFLARE=1

DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1

IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=5

 

[TERRAIN]

LOD_RADIUS=4.500000

MESH_COMPLEXITY=100

MESH_RESOLUTION=23

TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=27

AUTOGEN_DENSITY=3

DETAIL_TEXTURE=1

WATER_EFFECTS=4

 

RadeonPro settings :

 

[ForceVSync=1][VSyncControl=1][ForceHighPriority=1][EQAA=1][AntiAliasing Filter=MSAA][AF=16][VSync=Always On]

Note : max frame rate is controlled internally by FSX (30) and not by RadeonPro.

 

Frame rate is displayed in upper right corner of screenshots.

 

External view, FSX plane, ActiveSky cloudy, no traffic

 

External view, FSX plane, no weather, average traffic

 

Virtual cockpit, FSX plane, no weather, no traffic

 

Standard cockpit, PMDG737, no weather, no traffic

 

Virtual cockpit, PMDG737, no weather, no traffic

 

LFPG, External view, FSX plane, no weather, no traffic

 

LFPG, External view, FSX plane, fair weather, no traffic

 

LFPG, External view, FSX plane, fair weather, 75% traffic

 

LFPG, External view, FSX plane, fair weather, 75% traffic, in flight

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Osirith 14]

Two more pics showing extreme settings and conditions, and low frame rates.
However, this is a quite exceptional case and I could live with that. Most of the time, I will only experience frame rates around 15 during taxy and very "rich/complex" areas; so it is manageable.

The first pic showing 20FPS is almost misleading as frame rate in this view can drop as low as 12 for a few seconds.
LFPG, External view, PMDG737, ugly weather, 75% traffic, in flight


LFPG, VC view with HGS on, PMDG737, ugly weather, 75% traffic, in flight