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flyaway

New system, help picking cpu

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Martin,

 

 

      I don't design cpu's for Intel , but I do have common sense and can analyze thing. In all honesty you are sounding a little fanatic of the company and their recent practices (that your point of view, not everybody else). The spirit of my topic's and feedbacks is to give simmer real objective facts (non bias). Please stop been a fanatic and please don't bother to reply. You have obviously make up your mind.

 

     P.S. Respectfully your maturity level is pretty low

 

      Happy Flying!!!

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Show me where there is any fanatacism at all.

 

l have corrected you on only one point.

 

l have not not commented at all in regard to whether intels decision to use TIM meets with my approval or not

 

Unfortunately you have chosen to make unfounded claims regarding me

 

Simply tell us if you agree that TIM thickness is the primary reason for the considerable reduction in temps after de-lidding?????

 

No insults or attempts to put words in my mouth please. I have been respectful and so should you

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Who are you to correct me,

 

       You have talked and talked and talked of Tim thinckness been the primary reason. When I have show up directly from Intel spec papers the main reason for the thermal issues. They selected a cheap Tim develop in 1996. Let see if you delidding and apply any other kind of Tim/paste (correctly) it still don't bring the temps. That shows thickness is not the main reason for the thermal issues. Only with high end Tim the temps goes down (ex. Coollaboratory - Tim/Paste). So does this let us know? Oh!!! wait that the quality and composition of the Tim/Paste is what matters. In other words that is the main reason for the thermal issues.

 

    P.S. People has delidding and used (applied correctly) Tim like Tuniq, MX-4, AS5....... but the one's with 15C - 20C (average) drops are the people that has use Coollaboratory (High end Paste). So again quality of the thermal interface, either solder or high end tim is what has matter and is the main problem. 

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@flyaway, after reding your question carefully, i think 2700K is for you. No de-lidding is needed, and very easy to overclock. Excelent overclocker BTW!

If you go for H100 cooler, you should hit 5GHz without problems

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To the original poster:

 

I would reccomend going with one of the new Haswell CPUs. If you purchase a decent closed loop water cooler, you will not need to delid your CPU. You also should have acceptable temps as long as you are going to be OC'ing around 4.5-4.7GHZ.

 

@@jjcruz78

 

If someone is going to be buying a new CPU, why would they purchase an older generation when the current, faster generation will suffice?

 

The SB chips are over two years old and parts associated (mobos, ram) etc are slowly getting phased out.

 

Way too many people on this forum are continually bashing IB/Haswell even though they have little to no experience with them first hand.

Honestly (like I've already stated) a decent closed loop water cooler and a Haswell CPU work perfectly fine together. Just because these newer CPUs run a bit hotter doesn't really mean much of anything in terms of performance. I think people are overlooking the vast capability of these new CPUs. (Especially when paired with DDR3 2133+ and GTX680+)

 

If you look in the FSMark11 thread, you will see that the latest test shows 54FPS @ 4.7GHZ on a Haswell CPU. - This is about a 20% increase in framerate over similar SB systems. Why in the world would someone buy an older slower CPU when we have solid evidence as such?

 

 

Moreover, given that we enthusiast change our CPU's on a regular basis, it's probably not relevant

 

I am glad you brought this up. From what I have gathered most CPUs even overclocked are very likely to last much longer than the life of the technology. Why would I be using my 2700K in 10 years when much faster technology will be around? 

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Ben Cap, on 21 Jun 2013 - 6:12 PM, said:

To the original poster:

 

I would reccomend going with one of the new Haswell CPUs. If you purchase a decent closed loop water cooler, you will not need to delid your CPU. You also should have acceptable temps as long as you are going to be OC'ing around 4.5-4.7GHZ.

 

I concur. Always get the latest CPU put out by Intel...unless and untill its clearly demonstrated that a CPU of 2 gen back is better. or extremely cheap/

 

We had the same conversation when IB was announced and the same stuff. and some knowledgeable folks who actually had both demonstrated that IB was an improvement in spite of some heat issue.

 

However, if some one already has a 2700K OCed to 5.0Ghz then maybe not worth going for either IB or Haswell... Since the trouble of building and reinstall may not be worth the improvement in CPU/FPS.. which I am certain there would be.

 

I have IB with 4.6 and I am happy. I know Haswell would be an improvement but not worth for ME to upgrade. But it would be ridiculous for me to sit here and claim my IB is so much better than Haswell!


Manny

Beta tester for SIMStarter 

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    Not all haswell are hitting 4.7 ghz the average is 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz. Heat is not and issue if you don't want the part to last long. why telling a fellow simmer to buy a part that is inferior in quality, when Sandy is still good (only a tad slower that's all). If the rig is only for FSX simmer will be better serve by Sandy and it will also last longer. IF Intel changes back to solder or at least a better quality tim then with the slight performance improvement, then upgrade is worth it (IMO).

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    Not all haswell are hitting 4.7 ghz the average is 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz. Heat is not and issue if you don't want the part to last long. why telling a fellow simmer to buy a part that is inferior in quality, when Sandy is still good (only a tad slower that's all). If the rig is only for FSX simmer will be better serve by Sandy and it will also last longer. IF Intel changes back to solder or at least a better quality tim then with the slight performance improvement, then upgrade is worth it (IMO).

On My MoBo is optimized deafault 4.3ghz turbo if your statement is correct the

Gigabyte Z87X-OC most be Very unstable, just My 2 cents.

 

Its fact that the Haswell is faster than the SB a rocksolid haswell @4.7 outperform a

2700k @5.4ghz

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Manny,

 

     Why is always buying the latest better ? why ? Are we keeping up with the Joneses ? In this case Sandy is the better part, it has better thermal interface, last longer and is only slightly slower. To me buying Ivy or haswell that are inferior in quality is not a good idea. Now you tell me that Ivy or haswell brings over 30% performance improvement, that is a different story, but that is not he case. As a fellow Simmer I like to protect my investment (always buy better quality unless the performance improvement is noticeable, again that is not the case). And I advice fellow Simmer the same way I like to be advice (factual and the truth). Finally if people are going to use their rig for something else beside FSX, maybe video editing a program that may take advantage of the new AVX2 instruction set, then haswell will be a good option, but can't automatically assume new is better it depends.

 

     P.S. We have heard this before with Ivy and still stand with haswell, we need to stop using our visor and automatically assume new technology is better.

 

    Happy Flying!!!

 

 

 


  Westman,

 

        You just got a great cpu but that is not the norm. Their is a article on Google that talks about system integrators (in the UK)are having problems with haswell overclocking past 4.3 ghz as the norm. Again good for you (got a good cpu), again not the norm with haswell. So generalizing and potentially implying that is the norm is a disservice, plus you need high end water cooling too. Not everybody can afford that.


  Westman,

 

      Is haswell faster, yes by about 15%. That is not a noticeable improvement, marginal yes.


http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/intel-haswell-hotter-and-slower-than-expected

 

 

 Here is a link that talks about Haswell Problems.

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 Here is a ES sample overclocking demo. Again retail sample are having the problem of only overclocking to 4.3 Ghz on average

as per pcpro article above.

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the average is 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz

 

Maybe with people running cheap air cooling? I find it almost impossible to believe that someone couldn't OC beyond 4.3GHZ on water. 

 

 

only slightly slower

 

I am not trying to sound arrogant but I really don't want the OP reading misinformation. When people are spending hundreds of dollars at least realistically inform them of their options. 

 

4.7GHZ  yielded the highest FSMark11 score. There is no way you are going to tell me that it is only "slightly" slower. 20-30% perf. gains over SB in FSX... 

 

 

plus you need high end water cooling too. Not everybody can afford that.

 

Expensive? Closed loop coolers are actually very affordable.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106188

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030

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   Ben,

 

         The problem as I said multiple times is:

 

      1. Cheap Tim

      2. Less surface area to dissipate heat

      3. Integration of FIVR (voltage regulator inside the cpu) - implementation is not the greatest // pretty average at best

      4. Higher TDP at least in comparison to Ivy 77w vs 84w

 

      it is possible with full water cooling loop as is shown in the video. It is way to expensive to the average simmer.

 

        P.S. Physics is playing a huge part A) again less surface 200K more transistor (in comparison to Ivy 1.2 Million transistor)

               Prefill close loop are not cutting it FYI

 

          Happy Flying!!!!

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Ben,

 

      Close loop water cooler are not up to the task of pushing haswell pass 4.3 ghz it is stated by JJ from Asus in the video I posted.

 

     The 4.7 ghz it is possibly but is not the norm. On Average haswell is only hitting 4.3 Ghz as stated in the Pcpro article.

 

 

         So, I follow hardware really close I know what I'm talking about.

 

       Happy Flying!!!!

 

 

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I'm also in the process of updating my 6+ year old PC, with something that can actually run X-Plane 10 (and current PC games) well. When I first saw this thread, I thought that I would finally get some solid advice about which CPU might work best. But after reading ALL the posts in this thread, I'm more confused than ever. I still have no idea if I'd be better off with a 4770K Haswell or a 3770K Ivy Bridge, or with something else.

 

I have only had one other PC custom built for me . . . and my last effort didn't go so well, as I'm not very good with the hardware part (and there are way too many choices to make). And now I'm trying very hard to get this one right, but how am I suppose to decide on a CPU (which is like the first decision I need to make), when there are two so totally opposite views of Haswell?

 

I get that you are having a good debate and all, but it this is not at all helpful to someone like me.


~ Arwen ~

 

Home Airfield: KHIE

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I get that you are having a good debate and all, but it this is not at all helpful to someone like me.

 

Gotta love opinions, eh?

 

Need to narrow down the variables. If you go 100% stock, then there is one answer, 4770k. Right jjcruz78?

 

Once you throw varying degrees of overclocking in the mix, it can be a free for all depending on your hopes and expectations.

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