Takeoff Ref - V1 = Vr

[James Bennett 52]

The question is though, why did the pilot in the video override the Vr setting so that V1 would not be the same as Vr, even though according to the performance calculations they should be the same?

OCD i'm guessing lol. I can't think of any good reason.

[FLEX1978 373]

The question is though, why did the pilot in the video override the Vr setting so that V1 would not be the same as Vr, even though according to the performance calculations they should be the same?

I decided to check this out with my father, he mentioned that when he initially moved to the 777 the topic of balanced field v speeds was brought up however he's been on the 777 for a while now and nothing further has ever been mentioned and no requirement has been made to increase VR. He also mentioned something about a possible software update for EFB calculated v speeds.

 

How old is that Air Canada video? I'm with the answer that it is something to do with the auto V1 call out on some machines conflicting with the PNF calling rotate at the same time, on other types if the v speeds are balanced you don't call V1, you just say rotate.

 

Bottom line 1knot is not really something to get deep about. Every operator has its own way of doing things.

 

EDIT- btw, for anyone interested, do some research for 'improved climb' on the 777, it is a method of increasing VR to obtain better climb perfomance.

[LRW 42]

 

 

How old is that Air Canada video?

 

That flight of ACA033  was 16 July 2010.

[Tabs 2,790]

My guess is that maybe it was going to aurally announce "vee one" and "rotate" right at the same instant and possibly they do that to stop the callouts from overlapping.

[JU108 31]

By googling the 777FHB and opening the corresponding pdf (not linking here as they are property of the company) it seems there is a difference between V1 and Vr for flaps 5.

 

Weight, V1, Vr, V2

170, 111, 122, 135 

230, 139, 146, 155

300, 163, 170, 175

 

Not sure though if such difference is enough to avoid overlapping V1 and Vr though, as I have no clue on acceleration of B777

 

Aleks

[GregL 26]

Field performance and climbout performance will affect the V1/Vr split the most on the 777.

 

Wet figures in particular will often give you a split. Also terrain constraints in the climbout and intersection departures will often give you a split on performance limiting runways such as Denver. The V speeds can be affected by using 'packs off' take off, 'improved climb' or 'full power' (selecting packs off takeoff will always give you a full power takeoff) to increase the TOPL (Take Off Performance Limit) to allow greater aircraft commercial loading from such performance limiting fields (Denver, Nairobi, Jo'Burg and Mexico City spring to mind!)

 

The FMC will calculate the V figures based upon your weight, outside air temperature, flap setting and trim. These are overwritten by the EFB (if fitted) or computer generated figures. In our company it is forbidden to manually adjust the figures unless calculated from the performance manual for manually calculated V figures.

 

I've been on the 777 for quite a while now and never heard of manually splitting the V figures to be able to call both the V1 and the Vr, neither would I, personally, allow it. Perhaps it is just either the Air Canada SOP or a personal foible of the Captain on the day.

 

(edited to add the correct term TOPL)

Edited June 26, 2013 by GregL

[ACAJS41 2]

I've flown various aircraft over the years at several different airline (including RRs old airline)... On many aircraft V1 and VR can be the same... on the A319/20/21 sometimes V2 was less then VR.

I dont really post much on here, Im more a lurker.. Having flown 2 of the PMDG aircraft (J41, 744) I have to say these products are amazing... I was never much into FS until someone introcduced me to PMDG and I was shocked at how real they model the aircraft... the NGX is unreal. I cant wait to see the 777... I havent checked on the status in a few months... I was just actually sitting down thinking I was gonna buy it... ha ha ha to my suprise no 777 cant wait to see this beast! Paul M

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Gents-

 

Since the above poster had a BlueRidge callsign, he can be trusted.  B)

 

Best little airline ever to run itself into the ground, right Paul?

[ACAJS41 2]

Rob I couldn't have said it any better myself. I actually just stayed at the IAD Holiday Inn over by Shaw Rd. I took a walk through the parking lot and around the old building, I'm man enough to say I got a bit teared up.

The 777 looks amazing... I'm now checking the PMDG website and here everyday! You've got another one hooked!

 

Paul

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I actually just stayed at the IAD Holiday Inn over by Shaw Rd. I took a walk through the parking lot and around the old building, I'm man enough to say I got a bit teared up.

 

Did it still have the Independence Air sign on it?  That thing was up for years after we closed up shop.  Despite living only a few minutes away, I haven't been back over by the old building in a while.

 

Oddly enough, I let my friend borrow my wands and part of my old rampie uniform for Halloween last year and just picked it up from her today.  The bag I gave her still has the RF100s, some unopened ear plugs and a commemorative RJ pin of some sort.  Crazy...

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Kyle-

 

Wait- you were a Blueridge too?

 

How did I not know that....

 

We have to start a club. 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Kyle-

 

Wait- you were a Blueridge too?

 

How did I not know that....

 

We have to start a club. 

 

haha - yep!  Admittedly, close to the transition from ACA to IDE, but still, yep!

 

Found these in the bag:

 

Looks like a post IDE transition set of RF-100s (Bin 1/4/5 seem Airbus-ish, though I never touched that side), but still, I can't believe that was still lying around.

[dazz 69]

What a nice little feature this is, and so cool the NGX will be retrofitted with it!

[cannonplug 126]

We have to start a club.

 

 

Maybe you could offer associate memberships to those of us who worked for the predecessor. Remember Presidential Airways? They went aground in Dec. 89. I believe it was Westair that spun off a few planes to become ACA at the time. I spent a few months fixing planes for Presidential back then, but I got lucky and found another job a month before they folded.

 

Cheers!

 

Walter Meier

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Walter-

 

You missed some good times.  ACA was a great little company to work for.  I moved over from the Big Bad Partner Airline with some misgivings- but found the place to be staffed with a ton of folks who were really passionate about making things run.

 

After the whole thing imploded- it has been interesting to watch folks who really enjoyed working for ACA find that larger, more established airlines lack the enthusiasm and fun we had at our little airline.

 

Just goes to show- bigger isn't always better!

 

So- yeah- we'll have to make associate memberships available.  :lol: