Has anyone managed to get a file removed at FSPLANET?

[Guest danowat]

"I don't understand why people in this community are not outraged by this behavior."Tom, I am, this is why I asked the question.I have asked FSplanet to remove the files, I did put specific instructions in the readme file stating the I DO NOT wish the file to be uploaded anywhere else.But what can I do about it?Dan.

[Guest R5D4]

Tom,thanks for the link re: Freeware licence- answers my original question. I didn't mean to sound insulting or belittling but appreciate how it may have come across. I would say the lack of credit to freeware authors causes many to not bother rather than sites like fsplanet. My download clocked many thousands and all I received was emails from people asking for product support - not one word of thanks.

[Guest dugan1]

Here's an idea that might help, either in stopping the practice, or making a class-action or even individual lawsuit more viable:1. In case European courts rely on the definition of "freeware" mentioned above, publish your add-ons with no use of the term "freeware."2. Always include a copyright notice that asserts the author's ownership of the copyright in any jurisdiction that recognizes copyright.3. (Here's the new part) Stipulate in the copyright notice that the price for a legal license to use the software is US$100 or so, and anyone who wishes to purchase a license should email the author for payment instructions. Stipulate, too, that because of the value the author has received from AVSIM in providing a resource for enjoyment of the hobby, and for technical aid and encouragement in developing the add-on (almost nobody creates these things without having learned something here), the author has in return granted a free license to any user who downloads the software from the AVSIM site.In no. 3, the reference to the copyright holder having received value from AVSIM is important. And of course, you may substitute or add any other site you wish to those whose users are granted a free license.This way, you accomplish two things: First, you establish a value for the software that can be used to calculate damages in a lawsuit. It's harder to quantify the damage done by the copyright infringement if the software is "free." Second, even if a rogue web site manager is not deterred, most individual downloaders will be concerned about their personal liability in downloading the software, and so interest in downloading from the rogue site will be diminished.I know a little about intellectual property law, but not so much that the above might not have some problems I haven't considered. Also AVSIM might need to provide a way to show proof that a file was downloaded from their servers, which might be too much hassle, and there might even be other reasons AVSIM would be wary of hosting packages with such an approach. I don't mean to speak for them or for add-on authors. I'm merely offering a possibility in case the parties involved might like to kick it around and see if it offers a solution.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Great suggestion.As for "I know a little about intellectual property law, but not so much that the above might not have some problems I haven't considered. Also AVSIM might need to provide a way to show proof that a file was downloaded from their servers, which might be too much hassle, and there might even be other reasons AVSIM would be wary of hosting packages with such an approach. I don't mean to speak for them or for add-on authors. I'm merely offering a possibility in case the parties involved might like to kick it around and see if it offers a solution."AVSIM does include a zip wrapper notification on all files downloaded from AVSIM. This is an automatic process when the file is scanned and then placed in our library. It shows up as "avsim.diz" in the file when you unzip it.

[Guest danowat]

Prehaps someone could come up with a standard readme template that icludes the suggestion?.Or could it be put in automatically r.e. the "diz" file?Dan.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Dan, here a draft that should NOT be included in the README file, but in a separate file "LICENSE TO USE":------COPYRIGHT NOTICECopyright Date: (insert date of publication)Copyright Holder: (insert name of individual or team)In accordance with International Copyright Law, this program and all of its contents remain the property of the Copyright Holder stipulated above. The following actions are strictly forbidden without specific written permission from the Copyright Holder to do so:1.) Resale in any form2.) Compilation in any media3.) Alteration, modification, or removal of any content included in this program4.) Distribution via any medium, website, library, magazine or forum5.) Decompilation or reverse engineering of this program or any of its contentsLICENSE TO USEYou are hereby granted a license to use this program for your personal, non-commercial, use. Violation of any of the Copyright terms above or License to Use automatically removes your license to use this product, and must be removed from your hard drive or other storage media.FEEThis program is NOT freeware or free software. Its retail value is $100.00 US Dollars payable to the Copyright Holder above. If you have obtained this program from some other source than those listed in the WAIVER OF FEE section below, please contact the Copyright Holder at (insert email address) for payment arrangements.WAIVER OF FEEThe above fee is waived ONLY if you obtain this program from the following:AVSIM Online(insert other websites you will allow to distribute your program)These sources of this program have been granted a mass distribution license by the Copyright Holder. If you have obtained this program from any other source than those listed above, that site or source has violated the rights of the Copyright Holder. That source and you are required to pay the LICENSE FEE stated above. Sources not listed above are required to pay the license fee for all copies of this program distributed through their system, media or compilation service.------

[yellow5 0]

I have found my swiss repaints of the Eaglesoft Citation II, the Aeroworx B200 on a swiss site. I only uploaded them to the AVSIM site. I am very proud of the work that I have done on these repaints, and am willing to share them with all in the FS community. While I am a great supporter of AVSIM, I am not going to complain if I find my freeware somewhere else. When it is free for the FS community to use as they wish, then there is no reason for me to be upset that someone found them to be so good they wanted the files for their site. The more people that can use my contribution to the FS community, the better. I find it a compliment that someone thinks my work is that good, and wants to post it on their site.:DGranted, if I had copyrights and my repaints cost money, then of course I would be ticked off about stealing of these files. But how can you steal something if it is free?:DI respect the rights of people to have their free files used as they have been intended. If your readme file says that this freeware is to remain at AVSIM, then your wishes should be respected.:D

[Guest dugan1]

Again, I'm not a real lawyer (and I don't even play one on TV!), but it seems to me you'd want to make the license specifically contingent on payment of the fee or obtaining the software from a site in the free distribution list.Also, I think it's important to specify in the fee waiver section that the fee waiver is granted to the distributing site(s) specifically in return for value received by the copyright holder from the site(s). Otherwise, it seems to me that it would be too close to charging different prices to different customers based solely on who the customer is, in which case I'd worry about antitrust issues being a problem.I've seen the avsim.diz files and didn't know what that was, but you're right that the presence of that file should suffice. But if the software is downloaded by the rogue site from AVSIM and offered on the rogue site with the avsim.diz file included, it could make it hard to press the point against the individuals who download from the rogue site. In such a case, though, AVSIM would be in a position to challenge the illegal copying of the avsim.diz file, which is a much different matter than individual developers trying to pursue someone. And a concrete value will still have been established, putting a real sting into the risk the rogue site operator takes.

[yellow5 0]

>Of course they should, AVSIM DO NOT profit from any files>uploaded to the library, they offer a TOTALLY FREE service,>which is why I will only ever upload files to AVSIM.>>Dan.>I am sure that AVSIM may not profit from the freeware uploads, but they do profit from the ad space they sell. If it were not for all the freeware uploads and all the other services AVSIM has to offer, then there would be no one willing to purchase ad space. AVSIM like all the other FS sites is a business making money off the freeware downloads and other services through the sale of the ad space. I don't blame AVSIM or anyone else for trying to make a profit. It takes money to run a website, and if you don't have revenue coming in you don't have freeware downloads. I am glad I could support this site with my freeware repaints. :DYellow5

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Let's not confuse "profit" with "revenue". Profit implies that I and the staff of AVSIM somehow personally gain from the revenue that we do bring in. That is NOT the case. We pour ALL OF OUR REVENUE back into providing huge amounts of bandwidth and hardware to keep all this going so that users can have a large library and web site available to them for FREE. One more time: there is NO PROFIT in this for AVSIM or any of its members (and never has been). Period.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

WolfgangThe term "freeware" is not a legal definition or waiver of copyright--I work in the software industry and we examine copyright law very closely. Some sites have taken an old "definition" of freeware declared by a group of developers and have decided if someone uses the term, they have declared their work free to use anywhere. But the term has grown vague over the years, just as "software" has. Now we label everything from computer programs, music CD's, and DVD's as "software". Terms change--but legal rights do not unless an author or court decides otherwise. So, unless an author waives their copyright and explicitly states their work is public domain, they can choose when, where and how their work is distributed. They can also choose to have their files pulled. Many files have appeared on such sites in violation of authors' declared intent. This is dangerous ground to tread on. The sites operate under the principle "You can't get blood out of a turnip", assuming freeware authors won't go through the trouble of legal action. But those sites will sooner or later offend the wrong person (hopefully a lawyer or judge in the host country of the site).So again--"freeware" does not equal waiver of copyright. Only the author can declare that, not an ambiguous industry term.-John

[Martin Georg EDDF 0]

Hello,as a regular contributing author to "FlightXPress" magazine I want to state publically here that this article does in no way represent my personal opinion about this issue. This article appeared without being prior announced to the other reviewers and I want to make clear that it does not represent the opinion of FlightXPress

[Martin Georg EDDF 0]

1. In case European courts rely on the definition of "freeware" mentioned above, publish your add-ons with no use of the term "freeware."

Hello,this would be a bad idea. The first thing you need to know is that - contrary to the picture the author tries to create - this is in no way an official definition. In fact the jurisdication about this issue is different in different countries in europe. But the author has some perfide trick in mind: He tries to move the authors of freeware (in the sense we see freeware today) out of this business and to reinstate the term "freeware" in a different meaning. What he describes is much more like "public domain" or "open source", but the term "freeware" as some kind of "quality label" is the one he tries to establish for that. Yours,Martin Georg/EDDFVACC-SAG PR & Events Coordinator *** mailto:sag11@vacc-sag.orghttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...r=SAG01&a=a.jpg

[Guest danowat]

"But how can you steal something if it is free?"But that is exactly my point, have you tried to downloaded anything from the free servers at FSplanet?, I did try, and it is impossible.The guy FORCES you to sign-up from his paid service, why should someone have to pay for your files when AVSIM offer such a great service for free?Dan.

[yellow5 0]

>"But how can you steal something if it is free?">>But that is exactly my point, have you tried to downloaded>anything from the free servers at FSplanet?, I did try, and it>is impossible.>>The guy FORCES you to sign-up from his paid service, why>should someone have to pay for your files when AVSIM offer>such a great service for free?>>Dan.You have a point their Dan. I wouldn't pay for something that you could get for free somewhere else. On that note Flightsim.com offers a service that if you pay a certain fee, you can get immediate access to there site without having to wait for a node to open up. Why would I? I will wait for the node, thank you very much. I realize it cost money to operate these sites, but there are certain dollars that I don't want to part with. If all the sites end up asking you to pay for the freeware addons, that is when I will hang up FS.:DKevin