Looks Really Great, but I Can't Buy It

[signmanbob 592]

AJ, please read the rest of my post.  I obviously agree that PMDG doesn't need to "wake up".  But a gentle nudge in the right direction is better than a whack over the head in most cases.  Robert has a real issue that many others have been able to mitigate.  Seems like helping him see that is the best course.

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott

 

Thank you Scott, for observing that I do have a very exasperating problem with FSX that I'm sure I share with others. I am reaching the end of my rope with it...really.

(Those who saying "poor excuse", are not reading my post. It's not about excuses). 

This is about fact.  No matter what I have tried, I cannot get FSX to work correctly.  I want it to work. I would definitely appreciate some help from those who have found the secret to success with this program.  

 

PMDG and other developers need to look at this seriously because it is a "cry for help"  that I'm sure I share with thousands of other simmers, though they may suffer in silence.

It is almost embarrassing to get on this forum and say that I have been flying FSX since it was released, probably spent thousands of dollars on add-ons, yet now I cannot get it to work with the payware add-ons that I love most about it. (I say "almost" because my wife says nothing embarrasses me anyway).

I don't want to stop buying payware aircraft and scenery for FSX, yet if I can't solve this problem, that is exactly what I am forced to do. I can tell you that I have throttled down a lot on my purchases for FSX, which XPX has benefited from lately.

PMDG and other payware developers are in the business of selling their beautiful aircraft and scenery.  I own every PMDG aircraft made from FS9 through FSX along with physical manuals for both the MD11 and NGX, so I am at least as good a PMDG customer as anyone writing in this forum.  My intent has been to purchase the PMDG 777 along with the manuals and AoA Training. Yet now I am being forced to close my wallet to any future products because I can't get FSX to cooperate.

I have a lot of payware, but I do try to buy quality products from reputable developers, like PMDG, Majestic, Orbx, FSDreamTeam, FlyTampa, Carenado, Milviz, etc.  I rarely install freeware because I fear it may cause corruption. 

 

If he'll take me up on the offer, I'd be glad to try my hand over TeamViewer at finding better settings on his machine that might alleviate what he's seeing.

Ryan, I would be glad to take you up on your offer, and would appreciate it so much. How can we get together and make it work?

 

I have FSX Gold installed, so it already comes with all the SP updates and "Acceleration".  

I have shut off scenery that I don't use through an external scenery manager, and even go into the DLL.XML file and shut off .dll file commands that I am not using for a session.

I have the latest MyTraffic, but have to keep it shut completely off, because if I even just use 10% AI traffic, I will have a guaranteed OOM before I leave the departure airport.

I have been flying XPX64 enough lately that I am growing very comfortable with the user interface. It is just a matter of transistion, yet, this doesn't mean that I have any desire to abandon FSX.  I want FSX to work correctly, I just don't know what to do any more than I have already done.

 

Intel i7 Ivy Bridge 3.20 GHz Processor, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit operating system, Nvidia GTX670 video card, 64GB RAM memory, 2TB hardrive with 550GB of free space.

I have an SSD for my operating system, but use standard WD harddrives for my FSX install, because they don't make an SSD big enough for all of my payware (not one I can afford anyway).

 Obviously many people are successfully using FSX with much less a system than I have.

It seems to me that it is to the great benefit of payware developers, like PMDG, to be sure that I, and others like me, can run FSX and continue to purchase products for it in the future.  It is also apparent by this thread that there is a way.

 

 

 

Robert has a valid opinion- and I think he voiced it respectfully.  I also think that there are a dozen or so people in this forum that could probably help him squeeze far more out of FSX than he is...  I'll leave that to all of you to sort out- but in the mean time please continue to treat one another respectfully...

 

Thank you Cpt. Randazzo.  I look forward to getting together with some people here, who could help me to make this sim work correctly.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Start with a fresh FSX-built fsx.cfg, add the HIGHMEMFIX=1 and move all your scenery/graphics sliders to some conservative settings.

 

That should be a good start (maybe not the end of the road yet).

 

And, judging from your OP, I suspect some bad addon with a memory leak. (Probably, most probably neither PMDG nor FlyTampa!  B)  )

[z06z33 763]

I have a high end computer with an Ivy Bridge i7, GTX670 and a sea of 64Gigs of RAM to swim around in.

I can set all of my settings to full with XPX64, and fly the most complex aircraft available for that sim, all day long without the least hiccup.

With FSX, if I set my scenery to the minimum required for airports like what are available by FSDreamTeam or FlyTampa, without any AI active, and fly a 250 mile trip with an aircraft sim equal or any more complex than the Maddog, I will get an OOM error before I start the final approach.

Why developers continue to provide complex simulations for an antiquated 32 bit program like FSX, without providing their customers or potential customers with a solution to its memory limitations is simply beyond my understanding.

I love the work that PMDG has put into the NGX and now the Boeing 777, but as much as I am blown away by the quality, it would be nonsensical to continue to purchase these "supersims" for FSX, when I have a 64bit simulation available that can actually benefit from the power available from a modern computer.

I have tried both Bojote's and Word Not Allowed's tweaks, read article after article about setting up FSX, all with little benefit.

Unless this T7 can be adapted to XPX64, or FSX developers can get together and solve the problem of its memory limitations, I can no longer pour good money into buying beautiful high-end aircraft add-ons, just to be informed that my computer has run out of memory.

I say this with no disrespect for PMDG.  I do believe that they need to wake up to the possibilities of this reality, but the work they do is of the highest degree of quality.

On the other hand, it is like buying a beautiful Cris-Craft yacht to cruise around the duck pond in your back yard.

 

 

I can run nearly full settings at a flytampa/fsdreamteam airport in the NGX with weather, my traffic 2013 set at 25% and my terrain LOD set at 8.5 (Major cause of OOM) and I never get an OOM. I will say that I use dx10 but that's only for my day time flying. For night I'm back to dx9 and still don't get OOM's.I only have 8gb of ram. What tweaks are you using? By the way I would totally have a Chris-Craft in my pond if I could afford it or atleast fit it in my pond haha man they are pretty boats!

[signmanbob 592]

 

 

Start with a fresh FSX-built fsx.cfg, add the HIGHMEMFIX=1 and move all your scenery/graphics sliders to some conservative settings.

 

I have a little trouble understanding what is considered conservative settings.  When I buy an addon from FSDreamTeam or other similar scenery developer, they give you suggested minimum settings that optimize the visual appearance of their scenery.  My settings now are no more than what they suggest.  I don't have my sliders all the way up, by any means.  In fact, my AI is all set to "0".

If I'm having a memory leak with an addon, wouldn't others be experiencing the same thing?  I don't think that it would just leak on my computer.  Yet the addons that I have are the usual ones that everyone else buys.  UTX, MegaScenery v.2, FlyTampa, FSDreamTeam, Flightbeam, LatinVFR, Orbx, Taxi2Gate, Tropical Sim, Flight1, Aerosoft, Carenado, etc., I could go on, but all the developers that I buy from are the ones that make the most popular products.

Many sceneries and airports that I'm not using, I turn off with an external scenery manager, before starting FSX.

 

I will try your suggestion and let FSX create a new .cfg file and add HIGHMEMFIX=1, which is already on my FSX.cfg file now.

[signmanbob 592]

 

 

That said, you do have to make tradeoffs at some point - you can't just pile every single addon under the sun into FSX (all of which far exceed the specifications the sim was originally designed for in terms of model complexity and texture resolution and often require FSX.cfg settings that balloon the VAS) and expect no issues. You have 4GB to work with and must choose what it is you value most. Keep in mind too that GPU settings can massively increase the VAS load - a lot of people are running super high AA settings (full supersampling modes like SGSSAA, those SuperVCAA modes etc) at super high resolutions and that acts as a multiplier because the VRAM usage counts against VAS. I've settled on using 4xS with FXAA on for my own system (GTX570 @ 1920x1200) - it's a small reduction in quality vs. the ultra high modes, but it results in a lot less VRAM use and thus VAS use.

 

If you could list some of your other settings within FSX, that may be helpful too.  I am well aware that I can't run everything, so I turn off much of my scenery before starting FSX, trying to only use the scenery that I really want in there.  

These GPU settings that you refer to, I assume you are setting in Nvidia Inspector.  I will go over mine again, and see if they are what is suggested in the Avsim forum.

 

I can run nearly full settings at a flytampa/fsdreamteam airport in the NGX with weather, my traffic 2013 set at 25% and my terrain LOD set at 8.5 (Major cause of OOM) and I never get an OOM. I will say that I use dx10 but that's only for my day time flying. For night I'm back to dx9 and still don't get OOM's.I only have 8gb of ram. What tweaks are you using? By the way I would totally have a Chris-Craft in my pond if I could afford it or atleast fit it in my pond haha man they are pretty boats!

 

 

This seems impossible.  My LOD is set to something like 4.1.  My AI traffic is completely turned off. There is a rotten fish here somewhere in my FSX.

XPX/64 runs perfectly with all of my sliders set to full bore.

 

 

 

Bit of apples and oranges, I know, but just saying 64-bit is not some automagic cure for everything.

 

As far as XPX/64 goes, it's an automatic cure for me, without any doubt.  I can run XPX in 32bit and get an OOM, but it never happens in 64bit.  Flying in X-Plane is smooth as silk in 64bit mode.

[z06z33 763]

If you could list some of your other settings within FSX, that may be helpful too.  I am well aware that I can't run everything, so I turn off much of my scenery before starting FSX, trying to only use the scenery that I really want in there.  

These GPU settings that you refer to, I assume you are setting in Nvidia Inspector.  I will go over mine again, and see if they are what is suggested in the Avsim forum.

 

 

This seems impossible.  My LOD is set to something like 4.1.  My AI traffic is completely turned off. There is a rotten fish here somewhere in my FSX.

XPX/64 runs perfectly with all of my sliders set to full bore.

 

 

Bit of apples and oranges, I know, but just saying 64-bit is not some automagic cure for everything.

 

As far as XPX/64 goes, it's an automatic cure for me, without any doubt.  I can run XPX in 32bit and get an OOM, but it never happens in 64bit.  Flying in X-Plane is smooth as silk in 64bit mode.

Are you sure all your ram sticks are working correctly? It could be fsx is using the faulty one try removing it one stick at time untill the ooms stop or if you get down to the last one and you still are having ooms switch it to one of the others and see if that fixes it

[wolke85 150]

Gents-

 

A couple of thoughts:

 

Robert:  Your simming rig is better than the one I use for development, with the exception that I am running all SSDs instead of the old fashioned spinny-thingy drives.  (I'm trademarking that- nobody try to steal it!)  I had Ryan walk me through optimizing FSX and I haven't had an OOM since very early in the NGX development cycle.  (2010'ish)

 

i use the 777 every day- and my default testing location is at an OrbX airport surrounded by OrbX scenery.  I also bounce around to various FlightBeam and FSDT and Aerosoft sceneries just to make sure nothing bad happens...  It never does...

 

We put a tremendous amount of time and effort into making sure you get a seamless experience and I think it shows.  It does require that the user approach simming thoughtfully- you can't load something created by a developer that doesn't know what they are doing...   Most often when we help customers who are having trouble- we find it is the result of a lazy or inexperienced developer doing something that is KNOWN to create problems in FSX- and has nothing whatever to do with resource consumption.

 

 

P3D:  I keep seeing folks hope that we will "see the light" on P3D.  I think those folks should go back and read my statements on same.  We think P3D is going to be a great platform in the long term for our commercial and enterprise customers.  But because of P3Ds EULA we have no plans to offer "regular simmer" products on that platform.  I recognize that some of you are using P3D as a simming platform, but if you take a good close look at their EULA- you largely don't have that right- and as such they can turn you upside down one day if they decide to enforce their rights...   As such I think it would be irresponsible for us to sell you a simmer product on a commercial platform.  Some disagree, but...  We have a very expensive legal opinion on it- and I trust the lawyers in this case.  (And I don't like lawyers- so that is saying something!)

 

Xplane:  We are very hard at work on a product for Xplane- and our long term vision is to bring our entire FSX product catalog to play in Xplane...  Austin and his team are working hand-in-glove with us to make this happen...  but it isn't a big rush project because we have to take the time to learn the platform- and we are implementing some technologies to make Xplane an easier transition for our very large FSX customer base...  When we get there- you will see what I mean!

 

 

FSX vs. Xplane:  Thank you, gents- for not letting this devolve into a platform debate.  I think this conversation is sitting right on that rough edge- so I pleasantly remind you that we don't tolerate such debates here because it never means anything positive for the participants or others visiting this forum. 

 

Robert has a valid opinion- and I think he voiced it respectfully.  I also think that there are a dozen or so people in this forum that could probably help him squeeze far more out of FSX than he is...  I'll leave that to all of you to sort out- but in the mean time please continue to treat one another respectfully...

 

Mr. Robert Randazzo:

 

[...] Xplane:  We are very hard at work on a product for Xplane- and our long term vision is to bring our entire FSX product catalog to play in Xplane...  Austin and his team are working hand-in-glove with us to make this happen...  but it isn't a big rush project because we have to take the time to learn the platform- and we are implementing some technologies to make Xplane an easier transition for our very large FSX customer base...  When we get there- you will see what I mean! [...]

 

Thank You very much for this clarifying statement and information!

This is really, really good news!

And I am now very much looking forward to the point

[...] When we get there- you will see [...]

 ... Can't wait to see!

Sounds fantastic!

Cheers, Christoph

 

and ...

[...] Robert has a valid opinion- and I think he voiced it respectfully.  I also think that there are a dozen or so people in this forum that could probably help him squeeze far more out of FSX than he is...  I'll leave that to all of you to sort out- but in the mean time please continue to treat one another respectfully... [...]

 

+1

 

Hello Robert!

Just some suggestions - not sure if they really help as the limited 32bit VAS of FSX may always cause an OOM, but nevertheless:

Whenever flying the NGX:

I turn down road traffic to zero for instance

set my autogen sliders to normal/dense

also keeping the texture max-load within the cfg. at low levels may help [sad thing is - the great NGX looks perfect with 4096x4096]

LOD is always left to default at 4.5 at my seystem as well

I also do not use any AI add on either.

Again:

These are just some suggestions and no real way to completely prevent potential OOM's, but - just as an idea.

And i am sure there are many more advanced ways to improve Your FSX performance. But as You have pointed out in Your first post, You have already done a lot of research on that issue already, so i assume You have some proper knowledge regarding all of this and much more already.

Nonetheless i thought it okay to mention theses suggestions here.

Cheers, Christoph

[Tabs 2,790]

Ryan, I would be glad to take you up on your offer, and would appreciate it so much. How can we get together and make it work?

Send a ticket with "FWD to Ryan, TeamViewer" in the title. It's pretty late tonight but I should be around tomorrow and we can look at it.

[Q_flyer 766]

Well with that fantastic offer by Ryan, the OP should jump at it.....

 

You can't really ask for more.    Ryan rummaged through my PC back in 2011 when the NGX was released (I had an awkward activation problem), and made lot's of suggestions where things could be better ......... I took his recommendations and haven't looked back.

[pete_auau 1,154]

And  once  you have  solved  the issue  be  good  to know  what   it  was

[Kailiang Seah 44]

Desktop Heap Limitation:A second reason for OOM’s occurring is the default setting for the Desktop Heap is low: we recommend you change this as follows: 

To modify this, follow these steps:-

1). Click Start, type regedit in the Start Search box, and then click regedit.exe in the Programs list. 

2). Locate and then click the following registry subkey: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\SubSystems Right-click the Windows entry, and then click Modify.

3). Right-click the Windows entry, and then click Modify. 

4). In the Value data section of the Edit String dialog box, locate the SharedSection entry, and then increase the second value to 20480, and the third value to 1024.
 

Hope this help. I have a very normal system. I5 2500k 4.3ghz and a 7850 OC thats all and 8gb ram. venetubo  is all did And change texture to 4096

I have fly PMDG737 from Singapore to Hongkong no problem  

[SierraHotel 976]

Today I flew from KSFO to CYVR with the PMDG NGX using DX-10.  I was testing my newest overclock settings to 4.7 Ghz.  On approach to CYVR, I received 18 FPS steady per Fraps.  The keys to good performance are overclocking, and finding and testing little tidbits of information about FSX performance, scattered across the interweb.  It takes a while, but your system tweaked properly should give you great performance, especially with a 64 bit simulator.

+1......X-Plane, I really have tried to like it.....It reminds me of some old girlfriends.....Beautiful to look at but no personality!

[FIVE-BY-FIVE 453]

+1......X-Plane, I really have tried to like it.....It reminds me of some old girlfriends.....Beautiful to look at but no personality!

XPX 64bit is still in beta.....NOT FINISHED YET!  3rd Party will come...as you can see from PMDG.  FSX is not supported anymore by MS.

[SierraHotel 976]

"Xplane:  We are very hard at work on a product for Xplane- and our long term vision is to bring our entire FSX product catalog to play in Xplane...  Austin and his team are working hand-in-glove with us to make this happen...  but it isn't a big rush project because we have to take the time to learn the platform- and we are implementing some technologies to make Xplane an easier transition for our very large FSX customer base...  When we get there- you will see what I mean!"

 

When this day arrives I will gladly purchase X-Plane, I just hope I'm not dead when it does.

[CappinSuruje 2]

Not sure if this has been mentioned as yet, but check your "system page file size". Usually found at "Control Panel\System" followed by clicking "Advanced System Settings" and then "Settings" under the area that says performance. Im STILL using a Quad core 9600 with no OOM errors with a paging file size of 80,000 megabytes.