There are, but the one that matters is the one along the lines of 'stabilized' and that is not automatic. That one is human.

 

My bad, I though you were talking about altitude callouts only.

 

Regarding the visual approach discussion, I am sitting here listening to Perth Approach, who is issuing clearances for visual approaches only. The current METAR is FEW042, 9999 vis. Last night, they were also doing visual approaches, so it definitely isn't out of the ordinary to do a visual apch.

Whatever your knowledge or opinion you must crosscheck and also you still need to monitor your Primary Instruments (which even VFR pilots MUST monitor) which are the Airspeed Indicator, Altitude indicator, Heading Indicator, Engine RPM and the Attitude Indicator.

 

I absolutely agree, and I will say that, on short final you only need to watch your ASI but if you fail to do so, you can get close to a stall without even realizing it.

Well it does look like the FA's on flight 214 performed very well and a few were even heroic in their actions.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Asiana-attendant-describes-dramatic-evacuation-4651634.php

They weren't too low ages before touchdown: They were above their theoretical glide path and that's why they were going down steeply. That's why the throttles went back to idle and stayed there while the 777 increased its vertical speed down to 600 ft AGL.

 

That could mean that they overrode the A/T and put the throttles to idle, disconnected it at the same time without realizing it, and expecting it to keep the approach speed.

 

Basic of flying, once your are locked on the threshold, power controls your glide slope

 

Any RW 777 pilot or FCOM addict to confirm or deny this theory ?

A video on required instruments for VFR flight.

For some reason it is not showing up. http: //youtu.be/ YYFt_zb1RIk

 

 

 

Whatever your knowledge or opinion you must crosscheck and also you still need to monitor your Primary Instruments (which even VFR pilots MUST monitor) which are the Airspeed Indicator, Altitude indicator, Heading Indicator, Engine RPM and the Attitude Indicator.

 

If you think that you should not monitor these Primary Instruments on a visual approach you are very deluded indeed. You should do some real life flying or watch some videos on YouTube to inform yourself on student flying.

 

Whether you are in a 747 or a Cessna 152, you still need to have essential airmanship skills. Conducting a visual approach without monitoring your instruments is not only stupid and dangerous, but it contradicts the workflow of safe flying. If you get the good habits early and the workflow right you will have good success in the air.

 

If you think there is a different way than that then stick to your PC and when commenting please inform the crowd that it is your opinion and not experienced airmanship that you are basing your comments on. No insult here, but unless you get the facts right first on basic flying everything else is skewed and will never be understood correctly.

That could mean that they overrode the A/T and put the throttles to idle, disconnected it at the same time without realizing it, and expecting it to keep the approach speed.

 

Basic of flying, once your are locked on the threshold, power controls your glide slope

 

Any RW 777 pilot or FCOM addict to confirm or deny this theory ?

 

 

You find numerous links in this thread (search 'flyingprofessors' ...). The FCOM stuff is available at smartcockpit.com.

 

No need to override or disconnect the throttles, they retard anyway when the 777 accelerates on a steep descent path.

 

The still unanswered question is why the throttles didn't 'wake up' when the Asiana was pulled out of the descent. One theory to that is that wake up was inhibited by engaging the FLCH mode - which again doesn't really make sense in the situation the Asiana pilots were - and it's not really backed up by the flight data publicly available so far.

 

Bottom line: Still lots of questions to be answered ...

That could mean that they overrode the A/T and put the throttles to idle, disconnected it at the same time without realizing it, and expecting it to keep the approach speed.

 

Basic of flying, once your are locked on the threshold, power controls your glide slope

 

Any RW 777 pilot or FCOM addict to confirm or deny this theory ?

 

Corrective action wasn't taken if the airspeed was being monitored or if the other pilots noticed it nothing was said until it made no difference anyway.

Looks like the PF forgot about his airspeed AND the altitude as well!

Micro sleep? Fatigue or just bad flying technique, very bad habits.

To let the aircraft on approach, approach a stall condition is going to reflect severely on Asiana Airlines. Saying that though SIA pilots on a 747 taxied to the wrong runway and crashed it. When crews don't work we'll together it shows up in spectacular accidents!

Throttles at idle on final approach???

 

 

See above: It's logical they idled during the steep descent but the question is why didn't they 'wake up' when the aircraft was below target speed?

Well, considering that the pilot only had 44 hours in the 777, there's a high possibility of that being the case.  I'm just wondering where the PM was when all this was happening? (Or did they both just have 44 hours in the 777?).

 

 

The PM had more than 3.000 hours on type. But the steep cockpit gradient seemed to be "in favour" of the PF - the outcome, tragically, wasn't "favourable" at all ...

 

 

When I hand fly my simulated airliners, I always use power to control the rate of descent when on final approach. I don't touch the stick at all.

I may be utterly wrong here but the T7 is fly by wire, so actually powering up the engines does not necessarily mean that the pitch changes unless you pull the yoke.

 

 

I'd hope I was a pretty humble guy

after all they named one of the aircraft (EI EAV) after you, right :-)? just kidding

A video on required instruments for VFR flight.

For some reason it is not showing up. http: //youtu.be/ YYFt_zb1RIk

I know I am a pilot, but for a visual final, I only used the ASI, I don't use other instruments, because I am using my eyes and I did a SADIE checks just before turning to base.

 

On final, your eyes needs to be outside nearly all the time "air traffic, ground movement, gust, wind-shear, keeping your glide slope" you can only snapshot one instrument which count, the one indicating your speed

Corrective action wasn't taken if the airspeed was being monitored or if the other pilots noticed it nothing was said until it made no difference anyway.

Looks like the PF forgot about his airspeed AND the altitude as well!

Micro sleep? Fatigue or just bad flying technique, very bad habits.

To let the aircraft on approach, approach a stall condition is going to reflect severely on Asiana Airlines. Saying that though SIA pilots on a 747 taxied to the wrong runway and crashed it. When crews don't work we'll together it shows up in spectacular accidents!

 

You have a point. And we know that accident rarely happened on one error only maybe the senior non flying officer just kept watching the new type rated one

Bottom line, though, is that if you're not proficient in basic flying skills, you don't belong on the flight deck. There's no excuse for a crew with over 20,000 hours of combined flying time to kill people in a fully-operational jet on a visual approach in clear weather. And there's no excuse for an airline to allow the proficiency of their crews to degrade to that point. None.

 

 

I must say, that is a very pithy statement, and it sums up my opinion on the crew's actions.   I've been reading about the recent trend of cockpit crews losing their hand flying skills and becoming over reliant on automation, and I'm surprised this accident this past Saturday didn't happen sooner.   Money talks, and maybe now this carrier and others with a similar lackadaisical attitude to CRM and deficient training will finally wake up and make the necessary monetary investment into improving safety, as the loss of the airframe, the impending lawsuits, and loss of business are going to hurt them where they can feel it.  

You find numerous links in this thread (search 'flyingprofessors' ...). The FCOM stuff is available at smartcockpit.com.

 

No need to override or disconnect the throttles, they retard anyway when the 777 accelerates on a steep descent path.

 

Thanks for the link

 

I have 60 landing so far, so not much, but if I use my elevators to correct my glide slope, my instructor would yell at me hard

Thanks for the link

 

I have 60 landing so far, so not much, but if I use my elevators to correct my glide slope, my instructor would yell at me hard

 

 

Just retrieved it:

 

http://flyingprofessors.net/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-2/

 

Phil (DAD) is right, BTW: The 777 FBW features autotrim which, AFAIK, makes it 'flight path stable' even with changing thrust settings. Definitely needs a different handling than your plane.

BTW: The 777 FBW features autotrim which, AFAIK, makes it 'flight path stable' even with changing thrust settings.

You mean pitch stable ? Because I don't see the 777 automatically pitching +15 or -15 degrees to keep the glide slope with idle or full throttle setting.

 

All I know about FBW, is the airbus one and it will allow you to lock your pitch and roll input, with auto-trim and auto throttle will try its best to maintain the selected speed.

Definitely needs a different handling than your plane.

The Cessna 172 handle like all the others non exotic airplanes ever made, the exception of FBW plane, but the logic should not be different at all

 

Would you make a car with accelerator on the gearshift, brake on the passenger door handle and climate control on the parking brake ?

Is it safe to say, that if the plane did not suffers mechanical problems and it was allowed to get bellow vref, than the A/T was in fact disconnected ?