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johnwillimas

CS Forums Editorial Policy - Post Removed

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I just want to call into question Captain Sim's editorial policy in their forums. I just had a post deleted without any comment on the forum, message or email. Admittedly, it was critical of CS. I was complaining about an email sent out by them announcing "Unexpected News" (some bit of corporate trivia, in my view) when the unexpected news that most users of the B737 are waiting for is when they will fix the bugs in a product they launched over a year ago.

 

OK, they might not have liked what I said but it would be better for their reputation if they communicated a bit more with users on the things that matter and it would have been better if they had responded to the post in the forum. Even a "we're sorry you weren't interested and we are still working on the B737 update" would have been better than just deleting the post out of hand. 

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Apparently so.

 

Well, yesterday I posted there perfectly politely that I thought it unreasonable to have a post removed without comment or acknowledgment. I'm pretty sure that my tone was not in any way insulting, just saying that I thought there were better ways to carry on.

 

Anyway - not to my surprise at all - I now discover I am banned from the forum. Again no notification, no email, no attempt by them to engage in the issue, not opportunity to appeal. Absolutely astonishing and possibly one of the worst examples of "we don't care, you're only a customer" I've come across.

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(...)

Anyway - not to my surprise at all - I now discover I am banned from the forum. Again no notification, no email, no attempt by them to engage in the issue, not opportunity to appeal. Absolutely astonishing and possibly one of the worst examples of "we don't care, you're only a customer" I've come across.

 

 

Welcome to the camp!   B)

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Yeah it's pretty much a dictatorship over there,you have to tread lightly,or you will get banned. I want to vent over there, but sometimes you may need some help and the guys in their forum (some of them) can be helpful with CS buggy aircraft systems!

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I would love to see the exact wording of these posts that get deleted! They probably would be deleted here also!! The posts I read over there, including my own report issues with there planes, and they don't seem to get deleted, or the user banned. So I think the problem is more in the delivery of the message then the substance. If you start ranting or demanding, of course they are going to be deleted, any developers site does that, and rightfully so.

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i really don't think they care about their reputation and I can practically guarantee you they don't read on avsim.net!   

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I would love to see the exact wording of these posts that get deleted! They probably would be deleted here also!! The posts I read over there, including my own report issues with there planes, and they don't seem to get deleted, or the user banned. So I think the problem is more in the delivery of the message then the substance. If you start ranting or demanding, of course they are going to be deleted, any developers site does that, and rightfully so.

 

Unfortunately I didn't keep a copy and since they were deleted I can't retrieve them, so I can't share them here. I agree that CS have been quite happy for people to make factual reports about issue with the planes (though they don't seem to have done anything about them for over a year in the case of the 737).

 

I think my first post was polite and expressing the opinion that customers experiencing problems might not be pleased to get emails from them with a piece of marketing fluff for something that wasn't anything to do with their products. I've had plenty of interaction with developers down the years (both praise and criticism) and I've never had a post deleted before. My second post simply said that I thought it unreasonable to delete posts without notice, warning or even a email or PM to the effect that they had done it.

 

I don't dispute their right to manage their site, all I'm saying is that there are good ways and bad to do that.

 

I don't think they seem to be bothered about trying to keep customers happy once a product is out the door. In spite of them claiming to issue fix releases "a few times a year" they seem more anxious to keep the lid on problems that they obviously have with fixing their product. I've bought quite a few CS products in the past - 707, 737, C130, B52 - I won't be buying any more.

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I would love to see the exact wording of these posts that get deleted! They probably would be deleted here also!! The posts I read over there, including my own report issues with there planes, and they don't seem to get deleted, or the user banned. So I think the problem is more in the delivery of the message then the substance. If you start ranting or demanding, of course they are going to be deleted, any developers site does that, and rightfully so.

 

 

I had read John's posts on the CS forum before they were deleted, and they got deleted because of the substance in John's messages: CS fiddle forum posts for the sake of appearances - and certain messages, no matter how true they are and no matter which way they are delivered have the potential to open the readers' eyes.

 

AVSIM neither deletes the same kind of posts nor do they close similar threads - and for sure AVSIM doesn't truncate my posts: That happened to me on the CS 777 forum and it turned a rather balanced post of mine into some seeming fanboi blabbering.

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Yeah it's pretty much a dictatorship over there.

 

 

Umm its like that on most sim forums if you didnt know, even this one.. you follow the rules or take the risk that goes with bad posting styles that many people have. Other foums dont seem to waste time deleting posts though, they just ban the member.

 

p.s. the captain sim forums is not an offical support forum but more of an member help service

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So I'm getting that they delete your posts if they don't like your comment, they release a half finished 777 and give no support whats so ever on there products... That's really bad I hate to say it but it just really isn't very responsible.

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p.s. the captain sim forums is not an offical support forum but more of an member help service

 

You are right that Captain Sim run a separate fault reporting service and I do still have access to that. I am still able to read the forums but not post. The forums are "Official" in that they are hosted and run (and obviously monitored) by Captain Sim who also uses them to announce new products and enhancements. Certainly Captain Sim staff manage to find the time to reply to postings saying "Captain Sim is Awesome!" even if they couldn't find time to explain to me why my posts were unreasonable. They are as you say very much a member self-help service and many of the faults in the 737 have been minimised by the user community themselves through the forums.  (For which many thanks, its one of the great things about the Flight Sim community) It's just a shame that inadequacies in a paid-for product have to be papered over for free by the good will of the users and that when folk that complain they are dumped on.

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The banking performance of the 737-200 seems strange to me. Banking even at a relatively shallow angle without increasing the power or touching the elevator trim results in a sort of "death spiral". Conversely, all of my other payware airliners (including the PMDG 737NGX) start to lose altitude, but then the speed increases, and the nose starts to rise again. The latter is (IMO) what should happen for low bank angles, but the CS 737-200 stubbornly refuses to cooperate. Is it really supposed to be like that?

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I posted on the CS Forum as well, asking pertinent questions and indicating my unhappiness with a product that was seriously flawed, Ollie knows how many of my posts were deeted and i was even threatened with being banned, so i dont respond on their forums anymore. I have in the past few months seen some of CS T7 hardline backers starting to change their tune as well about their dissapointment.

 

I even went as far as initially asking CS if we can discuss issues via PM, and i got a cold shoulder from CS, so its ok then lets do the dirty laundry washing in the open then.

 

So ya i will keep my feelings for CS hidden and make like the world is perfect with little unicorns jumping around on clouds and little care bears caring.......

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Caribflyer (a member of the AVSIM staff) tried to establish some communication with CS via PM, too.

 

The thread on the CS forums he participated in got locked by CS admins nonetheless - without ever replying to Caribflyer's post.

 

The best thing I could say about CS right now is that they lowered the price of their B777 and added the missing features from their product page in v1.2.

Unfortunately, all their FMC bugs from former Boeing developments (757, 767) were carried over to the B777 code. History of their Boeing developments indicates that those bugs won't get fixed in the B777, either.

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As we continue this post into a "Boo CS!" thread...

 

Well, that wasn't my intention. To make myself clear. I think they make some great products. Even with its faults, I enjoy the B737-200, its a fine old bird. My case is that they are doing themselves no favours with their customer relations. Nothing is perfect in software. Things don't always get fixed as quick as we'd like (or even at all) but I feel that they do need to prioritise resources better between exciting new products (that generate new revenue) and fixing old products (that doesn't) because in the end loyal customers will stop being loyal and eventually people will find out how they are approaching things (even if they ban complainants from their forum).  

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