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Kattz

A proposal for PMDG, in case they're not doing it already!

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What about a stand-alone EFB?  Not the EFB for the T7.  Something we can buy separately and use no matter what add-ons we have.  There's one out there from another vendor, and I bought it, and absolutely despise it.  Don't ask me the name, group, because I don't want to crap on them, just that I personally don't like it.  It has a lot of... shall we say, inaccuracies?

 

Anyway, if anyone could do it right, I think PMDG could.

 

How about it?  Robert?  Tabs?  I'm not expecting a "Yes, we"re going to do that" answer, just think about it.  The market is there.

 

Best,

 

Kev

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Is the market really there though? They say only a fraction of people that buy their products actually have an AVSIM account. And I can guarantee you that not every single person here wants or needs an EFB. So I highly doubt it will happen, because there really may not be the market.

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Kev,

 

While the idea of a fully functional and external EFB is good in theory. PMDG has a knack for an unprecedented level of realism in all of their products. The problems involved with a fully functional EFB (mainly licensing data from my understanding) is the main reason it won't be included in the T7. (Also not standard on all T7)

 

I'm sure someone can either quote or post a link to the previous PMDG remarks about the limitations of an accurately modeled EFB.

 

 

Happy Flying,

 

Nathan

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It's already been done very well by Aivlasoft anyway

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It's already been done very well by Aivlasoft anyway

works great


I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

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I personally use PDF Kneebord for displaying charts in the FSX environment and all sorts of things from my computer like reading checklists,manuals etc to keep me busy during longer flights so I don't really nedd a EFB because this acts like one.Also the best place are Navigraph Charts which I higly recommend if you are serious into flying procedures like in the real world.So for me these two addons are really great:)

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What's EFB?

Electronic Flight Bag.It replaces paper documents into one single display that pilots can access with ease on the flightdeck.

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I was thinking of this but like you get the EFB working in the background, where you manualy set your flight plan and clearnces

 

Then u send it to the FSX and you get to see the pages exactly as in real world


Moe ELkarout

 

Boeing777_Banner_Pilot.jpg

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Define what you want in an EFB, though.

 

I think a lot of simmers don't fully understand what the EFB is all about.  There are/were a lot of things in a pilot bag that a lot of them aren't concentrating on, so they assume it's very simple.

 

There are charts.

These charts are going to be the bulk of the cost of licensing the data.  While you may think the market is there, we don't have the buying power that and airline exec does, as he or she has real numbers to hand them: "we have 4,000 pilots and we're going to send that business to you - allow us to tailor out chart subscription at this price."  That'll work there, but not so much here.  That'll be a significant cost, because even if we tried bulk licensing, we'd lose the customization some would need.  I don't really fly outside the US/Carrib/Canada, so I wouldn't want to pay for the whole world, and I'm sure others would feel the same about their part of the world.  Bulk licensing, though, would likely force us into world data, or some section thereof.

 

There are performance calculations.

In many aircraft, there's a whiz wheel of sorts (though I was never sure if it was issued to the pilots, or remained in the plane - could be dependent on the airline, too).  Pilots ran performance calcs on them, and now, software in the EFB does that for you.  Licensing that data costs money if you're looking for the realism we expect from vendors like PMDG.  That will be an additional cost, though I'm not sure how significant.  If the data is licensed for a specific aircraft, how do we add other profiles?  Does that come from the other developer?  What if that developer isn't interested in supporting it?  As an example, say PMDG licenses the data for all of their products, we'll have 737, 777, and 747 data.  Then developer X creates an A320 family, but doesn't license the data.  Now the EFB doesn't have the same effect as it should.  Developers have buying power that we do not.  Whoever has that data probably isn't interested in single-user data sales.

 

There are reference books.

The EFB also generally contains some amount of aircraft info in the form of manuals.  Additionally, some include regulations, and other informative manuals.  Aside from the real aircraft manuals, the regulations could be a challenge in certain countries (here, though, you can snag a ton of PDFs right off the FAA website).  As the aircraft manuals generally have to be licensed, the issues from the performance data are the same here: we don't have the buying power as individuals, so getting the data is contingent on the dev.

 

Ad hoc features.

Different EFBs have other features, and different classes of EFB also have certain restrictions.  As an example, the EFB I use when flying GA is wholly different from a Class III EFB, as I can close out of the EFB app on my personal EFB, while the Class III is a dedicated device.  Each manufacturer also has some sort of selling point on their EFB related to additional features.

 

 

 

Granted, from adversity comes innovative ideas and change, so I know someone will eventually get us a good EFB in the sim realm, I just don't think that's right now.  Perhaps when the airlines have converted so much that it drives the cost down it will be more possible.

 

Then again, data is also somewhat like gasoline.  People need it, and that's a relative constant.  Whoever has the data is unlikely to drop those prices if it makes them money.  The money is where the data is.


Kyle Rodgers

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Define what you want in an EFB, though.

 

I think a lot of simmers don't fully understand what the EFB is all about.  There are/were a lot of things in a pilot bag that a lot of them aren't concentrating on, so they assume it's very simple.

 

There are charts.

These charts are going to be the bulk of the cost of licensing the data.  While you may think the market is there, we don't have the buying power that and airline exec does, as he or she has real numbers to hand them: "we have 4,000 pilots and we're going to send that business to you - allow us to tailor out chart subscription at this price."  That'll work there, but not so much here.  That'll be a significant cost, because even if we tried bulk licensing, we'd lose the customization some would need.  I don't really fly outside the US/Carrib/Canada, so I wouldn't want to pay for the whole world, and I'm sure others would feel the same about their part of the world.  Bulk licensing, though, would likely force us into world data, or some section thereof.

 

There are performance calculations.

In many aircraft, there's a whiz wheel of sorts (though I was never sure if it was issued to the pilots, or remained in the plane - could be dependent on the airline, too).  Pilots ran performance calcs on them, and now, software in the EFB does that for you.  Licensing that data costs money if you're looking for the realism we expect from vendors like PMDG.  That will be an additional cost, though I'm not sure how significant.  If the data is licensed for a specific aircraft, how do we add other profiles?  Does that come from the other developer?  What if that developer isn't interested in supporting it?  As an example, say PMDG licenses the data for all of their products, we'll have 737, 777, and 747 data.  Then developer X creates an A320 family, but doesn't license the data.  Now the EFB doesn't have the same effect as it should.  Developers have buying power that we do not.  Whoever has that data probably isn't interested in single-user data sales.

 

There are reference books.

The EFB also generally contains some amount of aircraft info in the form of manuals.  Additionally, some include regulations, and other informative manuals.  Aside from the real aircraft manuals, the regulations could be a challenge in certain countries (here, though, you can snag a ton of PDFs right off the FAA website).  As the aircraft manuals generally have to be licensed, the issues from the performance data are the same here: we don't have the buying power as individuals, so getting the data is contingent on the dev.

 

Ad hoc features.

Different EFBs have other features, and different classes of EFB also have certain restrictions.  As an example, the EFB I use when flying GA is wholly different from a Class III EFB, as I can close out of the EFB app on my personal EFB, while the Class III is a dedicated device.  Each manufacturer also has some sort of selling point on their EFB related to additional features.

 

 

 

Granted, from adversity comes innovative ideas and change, so I know someone will eventually get us a good EFB in the sim realm, I just don't think that's right now.  Perhaps when the airlines have converted so much that it drives the cost down it will be more possible.

 

Then again, data is also somewhat like gasoline.  People need it, and that's a relative constant.  Whoever has the data is unlikely to drop those prices if it makes them money.  The money is where the data is.

 

 

Nothing to add to that well spoken Kyle.

 

The Aivlasoft EFB is a brilliant piece of software you really should consider trying that it has everything you need checklists charts online traffic info etc etc

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It's already been done very well by Aivlasoft anyway

One could also say that the 777 has already been done well by "that other company"... Then why are we waiting for this 777? For the same reason i started this thread.

 

Ok, I admit that I have the Aivlasoft EFB. I hate it. My personal opinion, if you have it and love it, fine. I'm glad it works for you. Please don't make this about Aivlasoft's product.

 

My argument is that in this post, how many piped up and said that the above product is great, works fine, etc? This indicates demand just based on this thread. How many users of this EFB don't subscribe to AVSIM or have read this thread?

 

Yes, in my opinion, the demand for a solid, sound EFB is there. That's why I bought a product that I don't like. Liked the demo, found too many bugs against the charts and plates when I got the real thing. The accuracy is higher in European areas than in the US in my experience, even after the latest updates.

 

It was just an idea...

 

Kev

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But one would be lying.

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From what I understand, PMDG will be eventually making an EFB (once licensing issues are resolved) but it will only be compatible with their own products, so not exactly stand-alone as you suggest. I think making an EFB that's completely stand-alone could potentially be better for simmers, not necessarily for PMDG as a business. 

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