''777'' Captain and F/O VIEW

[moekarout 32]

 

 

It does require constant adjustment to keep it that way however thanks to FSX's idiotic head-motion stuff that you can't disable.

FSX usually gets a constant rate of cursing from me because of this ammazing feature!  :lol: 

 

thanks everyone for the reply, i will try to give it a try when the aircraft i released 

and thanks to PMDG for helping us in this in their manuals thanks again 

[777simmer 117]

FSX usually gets a constant rate of cursing from me because of this ammazing feature!  :lol: 

 

thanks everyone for the reply, i will try to give it a try when the aircraft i released 

and thanks to PMDG for helping us in this in their manuals thanks again

 

You guys dont happen to mean the fwd/aft eyepoint movement during deceleration/acceleration do you?

 

Cause that CAN be turned off.

 

In the same folder where the FSX.cfg file resides, there is a file called cameras.CFG

open that with a text editor and change the following :

 

[Cameradefination.002]

MomentumEffect = Yes

to

MomentumEffect = False (or No)

[Tabs 2,790]

Hi Ryan, and also at Moe again (I have to say my estimated numbers for zoom in my earlier post were quite off so read this as well please)

 

I just loaded up the PMDG 737 NGX pre programmed EHAM - LOWI flight.

It starts up at 0.7zoom

And you are quite close to windscreen.

It looks realistic but you can not see the PFD or ND.

All you see is the Capt windscreen and some of the MCP.

 

To see what is shown in the drawing I actually have to zoom all the way back to 0.3!

 

Do you agree that at this zoom level the outside world is distorted and judging height versus distance on a visual approach can become difficult?

 

Or am I doing/thinking something wrong here?

 

Or are you saying the 777 is different in this regard and with it you DO see both outside and inside (PFD/ND) at 1.0 zoom?

 

The graphics in the Boeing documentation are not saying that you should see all of those things at once in a single vertical field of view without moving your head. It's just saying that's what the geometry should be. (you can't actually do this currently in the NGX because the front windows and overhead are too tall - one of the fixes that will be made for SP2) I keep noticing this over and over with simmers who've never sat in a real airliner cockpit (or any plane honestly) - when you're looking out the front window, you can't simultaneously see the displays and the outside view. You have to look down to see them, at which point you can't see outside. There's a depth of field/focus thing that comes into play too in real life - when you're looking out the window your eyes are focused to infinity. This makes anything in the cockpit that you can see in your peripheral vision look pretty nondescript and blurred and vice versa. This is why real pilots have to develop a scan pattern - their eyes constantly cycle around between the outside view and the instruments. After I flew the real life NG and 777 simulators last year and got to see what this is really like, it kind of became a mission of mine to try to encourage stop using super zoomed out views in FSX where you can see most of the main panel and the outside view all perfectly at the same time.

 

There is no aircraft that you can actually do that with in real life. It's one of the hardest things to adjust to in a real cockpit vs. FSX - we're so used to seeing everything at once that you can easily miss warnings and stuff because you're looking outside. I landed the NG sim with the speedbrakes out because I never looked down to notice the light telling me they were extended - in FS with a zoomed out view this isn't possible because I'd always see it there.

 

Think about driving a car - when you're looking out the window at the road ahead of you the speedometer and tachometer are barely in your lower periphery and if you can see them at all they're out of focus - you may not even realize you're doing it, but you're constantly scanning your focus back and forth between the road and the instruments.

 

The most realistic thing you can probably do is a .90 or 1.0 zoom with a Track IR or something similar. This way you can have the front window take up the full field of view but still be able to easily pan your head down to see the displays when you need to.

 

 

You guys dont happen to mean the fwd/aft eyepoint movement during deceleration/acceleration do you?

 

Cause that CAN be turned off.

 

In the same folder where the FSX.cfg file resides, there is a file called cameras.CFG

open that with a text editor and change the following :

 

[Cameradefination.002]

MomentumEffect = Yes

to

MomentumEffect = False (or No)

 

That setting does not disable it. Take the NGX 900 or any other long airliner (the effect becomes worse as you get further away from the aircraft model's center) and put it into slew mode. Spin around in the yaw axis and watch closely by looking at the yoke in the VC. FSX takes the camera position and rotates it in a complete circle for every 180 degrees of heading rotation the airplane does. So you get two full "orbits" of the camera around this invisible circle track for every 360 degree rotation of the airplane. The radius of the circle increases with distance from the airplane's center. This is hardcoded into the sim - believe me we've tried to get rid of it.

[777simmer 117]

I am well aware that you cannot see both outside and inside a real world aircraft without moving your head around (or at least your eyeballs) and refocussing.

 

You would need eyes like a fly for that :-)

 

What I am trying to solve is the problem that even if I DO move my head.....I see the same.

Obvious ofcourse, because there is nothing else in my room except the monitor and it will display the same thing no matter where I turn my head! (without YrackIR)

Unlike in a real airplane where there is hardware everywhere you look.

For me the problem is that I am actually used to the type of scanning you described, ;-) but in FSX I cant make use of it!

 

Track IR does not solve this problem either for me.

Because you would have to tilt your head down, and move your eyballs to look up.

If you dont, you are looking at the base of your monitor!

This heads down/eyes up position is very very uncomfortable for me.

Besides, I dont like the constant movement of the VC with track IR (it does not feel the same as moving your head and actually looking somewhere else to me

Which is why I came up with the two monitor solution.

This works best for me so far, but it is still not perfect.

 

Maybe I have to spend more time with the track IR curves to get it right.

Maybe someone has some perfect curves and can post them!?

 

Or maybe there is a way in Windows to use two displays above oneanother as one large desktop? (I have tried unsuccesfully)

 

With the GTX680 GPU that I have you can create 3x 1920x1080 (2D wide gaming) but you can not do that on only two monitors. Nor on any setup where the monitors are above and below each other, rather than side by side (I think).

I wish it was possible!

The idea is that the VC would then be displayed on two monitors.

This would allow me to look down and see the PFD/ND appear on my bottom monitor.

(similar effect to what many have with 3 monitors side by side)

 

 

As to the momentum setting:

I guess we are talking about different things here...and/or I do not understand what you are trying to explain :-( Sorry.

 

With that setting my VC is fixed.

Rock solid and not moving away from me, or moving closer to me, anymore when turning or accelerating or descelerating.

 

You are talking about slewing and moving 180 degrees makes a camera turn 360 degrees?

Are you talking about being inside the VC here?

Or are you looking at the aircraft from outside?

 

Thx for chiming here by the way, I do appriciate your help/info!

[Amund Brakstad 0]

Hi all

 

Some years ago i got me the Track-IR 4, it is a pretty cool toy, but i'm struggeling to get comfortable using

it. I guess this is because i still have to use my mouse to flick switches in 3D cocpit. But when flying less

complex aircrafts it's a joy to use, but the NGX and other high detailed addons it's hard. But in a home-

cocpit i think it will be a dream because then you flicking switches on hardware..

 

Any way... I'M READY FOR THE 777 :lol:

[klamal 282]

Yeah, I think maybe the only solution is to build a cockpit. This is what I'm thinking about doing or should say planning on doing over time. That's really going to be the only way to get what you're trying to achieve I think?<br /><br />I'm not sure how feasible this is going to be with the NGX and trying to split it across multiple screens hence again the question I asked earlier where you describe that you pop out the 2D panels and move them. I would think we should be able to do that similar to what a set up like Prosim737 then with the exception being here that with Prosim737, you're actually using another computer to display the PFD/ND across a network. I can't see why moving the PFD/ND/EICAS like you're doing wouldn't work though either and accomplish the same thing. Has anyone done this? Is this what is done with products like Jetmax? I guess they are compatible with the NGX and I believe I've seen where you can power the Jetmax with the NGX and one computer. Right?

[Fabo 213]

 

 

This is hardcoded into the sim - believe me we've tried to get rid of it.

 

What would happen if you tried to reset the view position via simconnect every so often?

 

Since EZCA exists, I have to assume that modifying camera position is possible via SimConnect, and I can trust some of your genius minds available to make it so that it does not interfere with TrackIR or EZCA.

[aceridgey 330]

I use .75 for every view, wingview cockpit etc.

 

In my opinion, that is the most realistic view point [in conjunction with Ezdok]

 

Alex

[Chaos81 110]

You are talking about slewing and moving 180 degrees makes a camera turn 360 degrees?

Are you talking about being inside the VC here?

 

He's talking about being inside the VC, and yes, if your heading changes by 180°, the camera moves in a circle 360°.

 

I tried your setting, and the movement still happens. Give Ryan's test a shot, pick a long aircraft (this happens in the default 321, too), move your view so you're looking straight down at the seat, and slew using the end/page down keys.

[777simmer 117]

I have never used the end/page down keys.

Dont know what slewing is either...wait I will google it!

 

Slew: Slewing allows you to rapidly reposition your aircraft without flying in real time.

 

Ok I have never done that.

 

I dont see how this is a problem when actually flying.

I guess I will have to try slewing so I understand the problem better.

Will do so as soon as I have a chance.

[Tabs 2,790]

I use .75 for every view, wingview cockpit etc.

 

In my opinion, that is the most realistic view point [in conjunction with Ezdok]

 

Alex

 

Assuming you have WideViewAspect=True on, It isn't - watch this series of videos that explain the optics and math behind why 1.0 is the most technically accurate:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjbCFNSofpk

He's talking about being inside the VC, and yes, if your heading changes by 180°, the camera moves in a circle 360°.

 

I tried your setting, and the movement still happens. Give Ryan's test a shot, pick a long aircraft (this happens in the default 321, too), move your view so you're looking straight down at the seat, and slew using the end/page down keys.

 

Yep - what I mean by the camera moves in a circle for every 180 degrees of heading rotation is that the camera's physical position in space traces out a circle shape as the aircraft itself rotates around the yaw axis. The view keeps pointing in the same direction relative to the cockpit but if you were to imagine a camera floating in space that represents your eyepoint in the sim, that location the camera's in is moving in a circular pattern that repeats twice for a single 360 degree rotation of the aircraft. Why MS chose to model "head motion" in such a weird way, we'll probably never know - the way your head tilts certainly shouldn't be related to the heading you're flying or the latitude/longitude on the planet you're at (which also affects it). This results in there being 2 places around a 360 degree compass where the view is going to look exactly as we set it in the cfg. There are 4 places where the left/right X axis part of it will be correct but the front/back Z axis part will be at the opposite side of the camera motion circle from where it should be.

[aceridgey 330]

Well my viewpoint is larger than my screen, so putting it at one is losing field of vision though right? 

 

The video is great and all, but i feel like a balance is needed

[Fabo 213]

 

 

Well my viewpoint is larger than my screen, so putting it at one is losing field of vision though right? 

 

Yes, but if you adjust it to show everything you would see inside a cockpit will make you lose the loss of focus ouside the view centerpoint. i.e. if you look out the real window, you will see the top of main panel, but you will see it far less clearly as in monitor.

 

I have had a chance to fly a bit in a 1:1 simcockpit about two months ago (in the 737NG) and the difference between looking out and in was enormous, and I was not even focusing on infinity (just about 5-6 feet in front of me). I highly recommend you seek out a cockpit near you and try flying it for a bit, or at least seat in it for a couple minutes.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

The video is great and all, but i feel like a balance is needed

 

Balance may be needed for functionality, but at a cost to the realistic view.