2D Cockpit.?

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

The answer is and will remain the same: There is no need for a 2D cockpit.

[777simmer 117]

The answer is and will remain the same: There is no need for a 2D cockpit.

You forgot to add the words "for me"!

 

With those two words added you would have given your personal opinion and everyone can accept that.

 

But now I must reply with "I disagree, multi monitor users do require 2D panels".

 

And that is what keeps this lovely discussion alive.

[KriVa 307]

Think of it like this:

IF the benefits (extra income) of doing a full 2D flight deck outweighed the costs (later release, extra debugging,...), do you really think they wouldn't do it?

Along with quite a few other developers, PMDG is moving away from 2D panels. The fact that they are doing this, means that the time has come to do so. I think their track record obviously shows that they aren't exactly lazy...

The same goes for the development of FS2004 addons. IF the extra income was still there, they'd keep developing.

 

And for those of you who do really, really want a 2D panel... Go ahead and pay the 165.000.000,- USD. I'll bet you can define what PMDG will be developing for quite some time if you do so.

[petermaxkoller 0]

You forgot to add the words "for me"!

 

With those two words added you would have given your personal opinion and everyone can accept that.

 

But now I must reply with "I disagree, multi monitor users do require 2D panels".

 

And that is what keeps this lovely discussion alive.

 

I fully agree with Rob. Not only Cockpit builders, but also (as me) four monitor users need 2D Panels; I will need an overhead panel and put it on a "own" monitor over my head!!

Peter

 

 

[777simmer 117]

Think of it like this:

IF the benefits (extra income) of doing a full 2D flight deck outweighed the costs (later release, extra debugging,...), do you really think they wouldn't do it?

Along with quite a few other developers, PMDG is moving away from 2D panels. The fact that they are doing this, means that the time has come to do so. I think their track record obviously shows that they aren't exactly lazy...

The same goes for the development of FS2004 addons. IF the extra income was still there, they'd keep developing.

 

And for those of you who do really, really want a 2D panel... Go ahead and pay the 165.000.000,- USD. I'll bet you can define what PMDG will be developing for quite some time if you do so.

I guess you are right about the cost, time, etc.

I would actually be willing to pay extra for 2D panels if it is realy that much work.

Not 165.000.000, but 10 or 20 bucks I would!

 

And I would love to move away from 2D panels.

But can you give me a solution to the following problem then?!

 

I use two (sometimes 3) monitors for FSX.

My large 46" TV has the VC on it.

In front and below of that I have a 24" monitor that I use to display flight instruments (in the case of PMDG this will be PFD + ND + EICAS/Engines)

 

With less then two monitors (one outside one inside) I find FSX unusable for serious flying!

I truely mean that (just my opinion though).

With one monitor it becomes more game (to me) and less simulator.

And I am not looking for a game but for a simulator.

 

So I am utterly utterly thankfull PMDG did the 2D PFD, ND, EICAS :-)

For me, this is enough. I dont need a 2D overhead panel (but others may).

 

How do you fly a visual downwind - base - final turn accurately (correct speed, bank angle and sink rate) without an extra monitor that displays engine instruments and flight instruments?

Yes I have trackIR....but it does not even come close to the benefit of having 2 monitors.

 

I bought the 727 from another company, and it does not have 2D flight instrument panels.

So I made a camera view (with OPUS FSX) that is zoomed in on the flight and engine instruments. (as is also suggested by others in this thread).

With my (required) setup you then have two VC open (on one PC).

You may guess what frame rates I get at all those beautifull Aerosoft airports :-(  !

Correct, right down the drain are FPS which is why the last time I flew the thing is at least a year ago :-(

 

I look foreward very much to the PMDG DC6 (besides the 777 of course) and I hope they will do at least 2D flight and engine instruments.

If not, I cant use it....I will just be annoyed all the time with low performance due to multiple VC windows open at once.

 

So, if you can offer a solution to my problem with VC only aircraft, then please let me know:

However remember:

- Multiple networked PCs, although a possibility, is not a real option due to cost!

- Multiple VCs on one PC is not an option due to limited performance on my current hardware (Ivy 3770k at 4.4GHz combined with other top notch hardware cant do it over addon scenery!)

- Tripplehead2go or Nvidia 2D surround gaming is not the solution either (for me), thrust me, I have tried!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

You forgot to add the words "for me"!

 

With those two words added you would have given your personal opinion and everyone can accept that.

 

But now I must reply with "I disagree, multi monitor users do require 2D panels".

 

And that is what keeps this lovely discussion alive.

 

 

I fully agree with Rob. Not only Cockpit builders, but also (as me) four monitor users need 2D Panels; I will need an overhead panel and put it on a "own" monitor over my head!!

Peter

 

 

 

 

In order to keep this lovely discussion alive (   ):

 

You can open additional 3D views (of the overhead panel or whatever view you need), undock them and drag them to a different monitor ...

 

(Yes, there may be a frame rate penalty, compared to doing the same with a 2D panel!)

[777simmer 117]

In order to keep this lovely discussion alive (   ):

 

You can open additional 3D views (of the overhead panel or whatever view you need), undock them and drag them to a different monitor ...

 

(Yes, there may be a frame rate penalty, compared to doing the same with a 2D panel!)

Haha...like they say, always read the small print :-)

 

The small print is usually, and this time is no different, of greatest importance!

 

With one VC (plus all the 2D panels I desire) I get a wonderfull, smooth FSX experience with 1/2Vsync.

Even over most addon scenery (I dont have ORBX though)!

 

With 2 VC windows opened/undocked I get as low as 15fps and stutters as if I am using my old core2duo again!

Oh, and have I mentioned that 1/2Vsync does not work in windowed mode?!

stutter....stutter....tear......tear.....

 

@Kyle

Not exactly sure what your pictures mean but I gues it is along the lines of the merrygoround.

 

Edit: Ah ok, I see things going around on my PC now.

(On my Ipad both were still pictures)

Thats ok and I understand it, this topic has after all been discussed before.

So rather than trying to confince you of why 2D panels are so wonderfull, may I ask what your setup looks like (how many monitors) and how you fly a visual pattern for example?

Thats not meant sarcastic either....if you have found another way (then my solution) to accurately fly visual maneuvers I would love to know how.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

(...)

With 2 VC windows opened/undocked I get as low as 15fps and stutters as if I am using my old core2duo again!

(...)

 

 

Quick-checked with another VC-only A/C: Roughly speaking the fps penalty was 25-33% for me (with a 2nd VC view dragged to another monitor).

 

One suggestion I could offer (more of a workaround) is to define a couple of graphics setting profiles and to use a high performance profile inside addon scenery, that can be changed to a high quality profile when outside the heavy scenery (or when closing the VC overhead after, whatever, completing the startup procedure, for example).

[777simmer 117]

Quick-checked with another VC-only A/C: Roughly speaking the fps penalty was 25-33% for me (with a 2nd VC view dragged to another monitor).

 

One suggestion I could offer (more of a workaround) is to define a couple of graphics setting profiles and to use a high performance profile inside addon scenery, that can be changed to a high quality profile when outside the heavy scenery (or when closing the VC overhead after, whatever, completing the startup procedure, for example).

Thx for the suggestion Olli, I appriciate it.

 

But as I have explained, I use the second monitor for flight and engine instruments that I require during a circling approach while I look at the scenery through the VC on my 46" TV.

I dont need it for start up.

I can not close either window during a circling approach cause I need them there more then anywhere else.

So right when the scenery gets real heavy on my system (close to addon airport and low) I would have to have two VC windows open :-(

 

I have tried with lower settings, but I would have to go with some sliders all the way to the left (AItraffic, Autogen, scenery complexity).

And at that point, why even bother buying add on scenery and Ai products right?!

 

Whereas with 2D panels I can fly with all sliders to the right!

Well no....with PMDG I have to drop the sliders a notch....but not all the way!

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

The MFD popouts (engine instruments) are 2D ...

[777simmer 117]

Yes.

[percylee 13]

Sure would be nice to be able to express some opions about 2D with our all the silly comments.....but then it is always good for a laugh espicaly when some do not have a clue what they are talking about....

percy Lee

[Irishcurse 234]

Sure would be nice to be able to express some opions about 2D with our all the silly comments.....but then it is always good for a laugh espicaly when some do not have a clue what they are talking about....

percy Lee

Expressing opinions and posting pictures of merry go rounds are equal posts. PMDG has stated no more 2d panels. Not much left to discuss.

[anden145 2,273]

Expressing opinions and posting pictures of merry go rounds are equal posts. PMDG has stated no more 2d panels. Not much left to discuss.

 

Well said - apparently there is, since this topic keeps coming up... I remember it with the PMDG 737NGX and the Airbus X (and Extended)