Nope: my PC is standalone

 

So how do you get Windows updates?  Driver patches?  Security updates? 

 

I'm not doubting you, but a stand alone PC with no internet connection is very much a minority case, you would be considered an acceptable no-sale.  Not trying to be harsh, but that's a business reality.

 

 

 

In any case, I imagine there are plenty of us still here who prefer hard copies or a download we can carry around with us to an installation that obliges the purchaser to provide the developer with unlimited access.

 

Always On DRM doesn't prevent this ... if you look at the Steam client you actually don't need to carry around any hard copies or make any backups, you can download your purchased games any time you like on any machine ... everything is stored on a remote server for you and available any time and is always backed up, no risk of loss or damaged content.  Some call this "cloud" computing, but the reality is that "cloud" really just means client/server architecture and that is very much becoming the "norm".  Look at Adobe CC, basically subscription service which is effectively Always On DRM.  This is going to be the future of software and yes a few will not be a part of that future, and that's ok from a business perspective.

 

But there are exceptions also, some companies may provide a telephone number to call and they will provide temporary activation code that you enter, valid until the next DRM checkpoint.  So even in extreme cases, there can be an alternate means to retain "Always On" activation.

 

Was the internet ever free??  I can't recall a day it was free?

To Tom and all the crew at Avsim

I Apologise. I went in completely over the top, and put both feet right in it, and any other saying you care to use.

As an explanation (not an excuse) I get just a couple of minutes at a day to look at the site on a very slow and restricted line. I most often scan the forum topics listed on the bottom left hand side of the front page.

Here I picked up the thread that seemed to my eye to suggest that community = PMDG. On later reading I see that it need not be taken that way.

Having been prevented from gaining access several times and seeing the banner across the top of the page saying that it may have been due to the interest in the 777,I saw red!

I never drink and drive but I was on this occasion stupid enough to drink and post.

What I did not realise was that I had jumped into the PMDG forum.

As for my lack of postings, I have until now taken the Look, Listen and Learn approach. I don’t have a great deal of knowledge to share and am really only a beginner compared with many others here.

Once again, sorry to all who may have been offended.

 

Frank Dunne

I'm just wondering how big or small our flight sim community is?...we can take a guess with on how many copies pmdg will sell.

 

Not everyone uses FSX so you can't go by PMDG's sales numbers. There are those that use FS9, XPlane, combat sims and other options.

 

It's so short sighted to think the world revolves around PMDG and FSX.

I mainly come here for the Hangar Chat. What? :huh:

 

To Tom and all the crew at Avsim

I Apologise. I went in completely over the top, and put both feet right in it, and any other saying you care to use.

As an explanation (not an excuse) I get just a couple of minutes at a day to look at the site on a very slow and restricted line. I most often scan the forum topics listed on the bottom left hand side of the front page.

Here I picked up the thread that seemed to my eye to suggest that community = PMDG. On later reading I see that it need not be taken that way.

Having been prevented from gaining access several times and seeing the banner across the top of the page saying that it may have been due to the interest in the 777,I saw red!

I never drink and drive but I was on this occasion stupid enough to drink and post.

What I did not realise was that I had jumped into the PMDG forum.

As for my lack of postings, I have until now taken the Look, Listen and Learn approach. I don’t have a great deal of knowledge to share and am really only a beginner compared with many others here.

Once again, sorry to all who may have been offended.

 

Frank Dunne

 

Hi, Frank,

 

Being someone who has put their foot into it before, I'll give you points for this and stop having fun at your expense. Sorry.

 

So how do you get Windows updates?  Driver patches?  Security updates? 

 

I'm not doubting you, but a stand alone PC with no internet connection is very much a minority case, you would be considered an acceptable no-sale.  Not trying to be harsh, but that's a business reality.

 

 

 

 

Always On DRM doesn't prevent this ... if you look at the Steam client you actually don't need to carry around any hard copies or make any backups, you can download your purchased games any time you like on any machine ... everything is stored on a remote server for you and available any time and is always backed up, no risk of loss or damaged content.  Some call this "cloud" computing, but the reality is that "cloud" really just means client/server architecture and that is very much becoming the "norm".  Look at Adobe CC, basically subscription service which is effectively Always On DRM.  This is going to be the future of software and yes a few will not be a part of that future, and that's ok from a business perspective.

 

But there are exceptions also, some companies may provide a telephone number to call and they will provide temporary activation code that you enter, valid until the next DRM checkpoint.  So even in extreme cases, there can be an alternate means to retain "Always On" activation.

 

Was the internet ever free??  I can't recall a day it was free?

 

First, let me state for the record that I do not support nor advocate software piracy.

 

I am assuming from your user ID that your name is Rob - didn't see it in your sig, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. In the case of the statements you've made here regarding always-on DRM and cloud-based verification, your argument is already lost. Steam doesn't prevent anything in the way of piracy. In fact, I addressed this in the paper I previously referred to. Were it still on my hard drive, I'd post it up here. Regarding Adobe CC, and quoting Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson:

 

"While service options that connect to our servers are inherently less prone to piracy, once a user downloads software to their computer the piracy threat is the same as for our perpetual products.

 

The reason behind the subscription-only move is the logistics of supporting two sets of software. The last 12 months of development was brutal. And there were results we were not happy with. We have decided to focus on the CC products."

 

 

regarding always-on DRM and cloud-based verification, your argument is already lost.

 

Not sure I understand this statement, lost relative to what?

 

Steam titles can and do use DRM, not all of them, it's up to the developing companies (not Steam itself) if they elect to use it or not, here is their web API: http://steamcommunity.com/dev for which Always-ON DRM can be leveraged.  But to be clear, it's not Steam that is do the checking, it's the title/game that can elect to use this API or not to enforce DRM.

 

I do agree that Adobe's move to CC only subscription was NOT entirely due to software theft, it also provides a continued revenue stream at more frequent intervals.  But this subscription model has been successful for them and they will continue to use it "exclusively".

 

I do trust IDC (see my link), not perfect data but they gather more usage data than any company and have been doing so for many many years (decades).  There information on how to successfully regain 10-25% of piracy/theft usage and turn it into positive revenue is respected by many established software development companies (mine included).

 

Diablo III and StarCraft II DRM was VERY successful -- it's relatively easy to determine pirated accounts by traffic activity.  There are more than enough cases to show that Always-On DRM is working, and working very well.  From a end-user's perspective they don't even know it's happening unless their internet goes down ... but in a connection centric type of game/simulation, their internet connection going down means they couldn't play/use the sim/game anyway.

 

But you really have not demonstrated or provided any details on why you think Always-On DRM doesn't work and hasn't worked?  I'm seeing existing usage that provides an entire positive picture/results of Always-On DRM.

 

Rob

Diablo III and StarCraft II DRM was VERY successful -- it's relatively easy to determine pirated accounts by traffic activity. There are more than enough cases to show that Always-On DRM is working, and working very well. From a end-user's perspective they don't even know it's happening unless their internet goes down ... but in a connection centric type of game/simulation, their internet connection going down means they couldn't play/use the sim/game anyway.

 

I apologize for hijacking the thread.  I'll post this and let Rob have the last word.

 

Rob:

 

Here are Blizzard themselves on the subject and as it related to the release of Starcraft 2:

 

"Fighting PC game piracy with restrictive copy protection is "a losing battle", Blizzard has said.  In recent months some publishers have begun using digital rights management (DRM) that requires players have an active internet connection at all times.  Ubisoft's new DRM system forces PCs to be connected to the internet in order for games to work - even single-player games.

Earlier this year gamers reacted angrily to the strict DRM used by Ubisoft in the PC version of Assassin's Creed 2 and Silent Hunter 5. Attacks on verification servers made it impossible for some gamers to play their new purchases."

 

And:

 

"That's a battle that we have a chance in. If you start talking about DRM and different technologies to try to manage it, it's really a losing battle for us, because the community is always so much larger, and the number of people out there that want to try to counteract that technology, whether it's because they want to pirate the game or just because it's a curiosity for them, is much larger than our development teams."

 

"We need our development teams focused on content and cool features, not anti-piracy technology."

 

This is why I'm saying the argument against DRM is lost.  The creators themselves are turning away from it or have turned away from it.  You can find posts like this from Steam, Origin, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Activision, and so many others.

 

You're probably thinking "Why does this guy care?"  Fair question.

 

I own legitimate, paid for versions of all of the Diablo, Assassin's Creed, Spinter Cell, Ghost Recon, COD, etc games, as well as others not mentioned on this list that are DRM'd by Steam.  Steam is horrible, and this is why:

 

I have an originally bought-by-me DVD of Assassin's Creed II purchased at GameStop.  Not a used copy, brand new on the day it released.  It is, or more accurately, was registered to me on Steam.  Recently, a glitch in Steam's hardware or software caused my DRM info to become corrupted on the Steam server.  Suddenly, my copy was no good.  I repeatedly emailed the Steam customer support team and after 5 weeks, received a "take a picture of the disk in the package and a picture of the registration number and we can fix this after you send us the pictures."  A strange but not unacceptable response.  It's been a year and 23 emails later since I took the pics and sent to them.  I can't use the disk, I can't register the game, and there hasn't been a peep out of Steam.  Meanwhile, the game registration now says "this copy is in use by another user and is not usable by you".  Well, it didn't get pirated as far as I know, so now what?  Steam is silent.

 

Second, Steam updates on my computer at every start-up.  System resources are being used by Steam even when I'm not playing or using their game or software.  Anywhere from 12-40Mb on my system.  Resources that could be used by something else.

 

Third, PunkBuster.  I don't play online.  PunkBuster is another Steam app that prevents cheating while playing online.  I've seen it use up to 80Mb and it doesn't even affect what I'm doing.  Both are running on my system right now and I'm not playing anything.  System resource hogs. 

 

There has to be a better way than always-on DRM.  And now, Rob, I leave this subject in your hands. 

 

Best,

 

Kevin

Second, Steam updates on my computer at every start-up. System resources are being used by Steam even when I'm not playing or using their game or software. Anywhere from 12-40Mb on my system. Resources that could be used by something else.

 

Third, PunkBuster. I don't play online. PunkBuster is another Steam app that prevents cheating while playing online. I've seen it use up to 80Mb and it doesn't even affect what I'm doing. Both are running on my system right now and I'm not playing anything. System resource hogs.

 

There has to be a better way than always-on DRM. And now, Rob, I leave this subject in your hands.

 

Best,

 

Kevin

You don't need to have Steam running all the time. I only have it automatically launch on my main gaming PC. On the other ones that I only play on occasionally, I just launch it when needed.

 

Punkbuster is separate from Steam, and has been used by games outside of Steam for years. It is another DRM system that was also somewhat aimed at fighting people from hacking multi-player games for their own benefit. Steam itself only offers more limited DRM, however the game developers can include whatever else they wish in addition to, or in place, of it. And some companies, such as Ubisoft, were notorious for doing so.

 

It should be made more clear that DRM like Steam uses only needs to get online once every couple weeks or so. Starcraft II and Diablo III need to be online at all times while you are playing them. No Internet connection means no game. Meanwhile, with Steam it is possible to play most games, unless the publisher has added their own DRM, without an active connection. Steam is not perfect, but so far is one of the best options for PC games. Unfortunately, no DRM at all isn't really an option anymore.

Well, this topic has been thoroughly hijacked. So, I am going to lock it and you guys create another that specifically deals with DRM, etc.