SSD for Win7 but SSD or HDD for FSX?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

I'm planning the components for a new FSX PC and will be installing Win7 on a SSD. But I'm unsure if I need a SSD or HDD for FSX, scenery and addons.

 

I'm thinking of a Samsung 840 Pro 256Gb SSD for the OS and other programs but what should I install FSX on? My supplier - www.scan.co.uk - is offering a 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200 SATA 6Gb/s 7200rpm 64mb Cache 8ms HDD.

 

I know fps is unaffected but would I really notice any difference should I choose the HDD over a SSD for FSX?

[zmak 331]

Like most new installs Im SSD but Just the other day I tried firing up my back up fsx on a HDD 

 

It was painful .(slow load)

[Noel 4,501]

I'm planning the components for a new FSX PC and will be installing Win7 on a SSD. But I'm unsure if I need a SSD or HDD for FSX, scenery and addons.

 

I'm thinking of a Samsung 840 Pro 256Gb SSD for the OS and other programs but what should I install FSX on? My supplier - www.scan.co.uk - is offering a 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200 SATA 6Gb/s 7200rpm 64mb Cache 8ms HDD.

 

I know fps is unaffected but would I really notice any difference should I choose the HDD over a SSD for FSX?

Hi again Ray,

 

I chose a Samsung 840 500Gb SSD and couldn't be more pleased.  After installing OS + FSX + All Addons on this one drive I still have 330Gb free so there is ample room for growth.  When P3D v2 comes out if it looks as good as we hope I will remove FSX from this drive and start over using P3D.  I like everything on one drive--makes for clean backups/clones and no need to sync up multiple drives for a syncronized back up which is required when you have OS & apps installed on a separate drive.  From all I've gleaned, unlike in the days of HDDs where it was likely advantageous to install FSX on its own HDD, SSDs don't suffer from performance issues by having OS & app on the same drive.  Another reason to use this approach is I can keep this disk absolutely lean--I don't web browse thru it nor install another other apps.  I don't need any realtime antivirus software either because of this approach.

 

After getting FSX & addons perfectly setup, I cloned the SSD to a separate HDD using the ultra-simple Paragon Migrate OS to SSD (or HDD as the case was) utility ($19).  In the event the SSD fails I can then re-clone back to a replacement SSD.  From what I've read Paragon handles 'alignment' issues so that this method *should* work fine, though I won't know unless I my SSD fails.

 

Having a 3rd 7200 HDD laying around I installed, using the same OEM Win 7 Pro disk, a second Win 7 OS for everything but FSX--a few games, web browsing, etc.  I keep this disk completely isolated from the SSD--i.e., the Windows boot manager does not 'see' dual Windows OS's as they are called up thru the BIOS' BBS boot popup.  By hitting the F8 key at system power up I can choose which OS I want to play in.

 

I moved my data drive from my former build over as well, so I have 4 total drives now in the box.  When I surf the web, purchased downloads for FSX go to the data drive from the 2nd Win7 install boot up, then I can pick them up from the SSD for installation into FSX.

 

The boot/load times on the SSD and HDDs are miles apart and I would never want to go back after experiencing this!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

Like most new installs Im SSD but Just the other day I tried firing up my back up fsx on a HDD 

 

It was painful .(slow load)

 

Accepting the initial load will be slower did you notice any difference when flying? If SSDs are so much faster I wouldn't expect to see any pauses at all whereas there may be some with a HDD.

[zmak 331]

No I didnt get that far. The problem will be down the track if you decide to load a heap of photo scenery or ORBX, the wait may kill the enjoyment

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

 

 

I chose a Samsung 840 500Gb SSD and couldn't be more pleased. After installing OS + FSX + All Addons on this one drive I still have 330Gb free so there is ample room for growth. ... From all I've gleaned, unlike in the days of HDDs where it was likely advantageous to install FSX on its own HDD, SSDs don't suffer from performance issues by having OS & app on the same drive.

 

Hi Noel,

 

Interesting you should use a single SSD for everything. I thought it was always advisable to separate the OS from FSX. I've done that for the last few builds and it would be strange to revert to everything on one drive albeit a fast one. Aren't there times when system files and FSX files need accessing at the same time? Surely 2 physical drives would be preferable.

 

I've been using Aomei Backupper for a few months and it's great free software. Acronis seems vastly overpriced in comparison.

No I didnt get that far. The problem will be down the track if you decide to load a heap of photo scenery or ORBX, the wait may kill the enjoyment

 

Thanks Zoran. ORBX software may well be an option and if load times are going to be excessive then a SSD for FSX may be advisable. But I'm still not sure if I can use a single SSD or not.

[Noel 4,501]

 

 

Interesting you should use a single SSD for everything. I thought it was always advisable to separate the OS from FSX. I've done that for the last few builds and it would be strange to revert to everything on one drive albeit a fast one. Aren't there times when system files and FSX files need accessing at the same time? Surely 2 physical drives would be preferable.

 

I researched this topic quite deeply and decided after reading various posts there really is no longer a significant performance advantage once in the SATA III SSD world.  There may be a theoretical advantage but I think it's moot.  I too had them on separate drives but no longer.  As for accessing system files that's pretty much handled well before you are up in the air.  I even delved into whether or not I should reserve some of my 32gb of ram to put the swap file on by using a simple freeware ram drive which works as advertised, however decided even that made no sense.   When I ran perfmon.exe and discovered NO paging was happening anyway I just put the swap file on the data drive rather than just eliminate it outright, though that was an option as well.  In the event something causes pagefile writes to happen I put the swap file onto the data drive in order to cut down on write operations on the SSD.  This brings up another argument in favor of all on one:  really, I have very few write operations once everything's installed on the SSD since I don't use the drive for anything but FSX.   I have ultra-smooth performance including now even .wav files that load no longer cause the slightest of hesitation as they did back prior to this new build, even when OS & sim were on separate higher performance drives.  It's up to you but as I say I prefer all on one for ease of maintenance.  I can even remove the backed up clone and keep it separate from the box for an even more secure backup, though I haven't yet.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

Noel,

 

Thanks for that explanation. I intend to get only 8Gb RAM (2*4Gb sticks) and wonder if that will make a difference regarding page file access. You mention swap file and page file. I assume under W7 64-bit they are one and the same and operate just as they did with XP?

 

It's going to take me a while to reconfigure my brain into accepting everything on a single SSD but it will certainly help with the cost as the Samsung is not cheap.

 

Is it still the case that you shouldn't use more than half the available space for efficiency or does that only apply to mechanical HDs?

[Ian Grantham 1]

that just apply's for HD i have just bought the same SSD and have just fsx on great SSD fast load times and easy to install

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

that just apply's for HD i have just bought the same SSD and have just fsx on great SSD fast load times and easy to install

 

Ian, Are you referring to the amount of space it's advisable to use on a drive? So that rule doesn't apply to SSDs.

[Noel 4,501]

 

 

Is it still the case that you shouldn't use more than half the available space for efficiency or does that only apply to mechanical HDs?

 

I've not found anything really definitive as an answer to this question, I think part because the question doesn't take into account how one utilizes the SSD, what sort of setup/maintenance one employs, etc.  I think if you follow these guidelines...:

1. Insure your mobo supports SATA III 6Gb/sec and that you have connected your drive to one of the SATA III specific ports on your mobo.
2. Insure Win 7 picks up the drive as an SSD and therefore enables the TRIM command to be enabled.  You can find out the status of your Win install by opening the command line and typing in the following string:  fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify  
   
   If the result is '0' TRIM is enabled.  If the results is '1', then you can change to '0' by changing the word 'behavior' to 'set'.
    
3. Remove the swap file from your SSD.  Either disable it completely or enable it only on a data HDD in your system so that there are no page write operations to your SSD.
4. Periodically empty the recycle bin--I don't know if this is accurate but the sense I had was that by doing this the TRIM process executes & cleans out previously designated as deleted files that are actually not physically removed until TRIM does the work.  As I say, not sure if that's accurate but I am sure a functioning TRIM mechanism helps keep the drive in good & high performing condition.
5. Don't defrag
6. Keep all micro (and unnecessary larger) writes down to an absolute minimum.  This again is why I argue one drive for OS & FSX & Addons ONLY!  Keeps the writes to a minimum after initial set up.  I don't know if REX weather engine writes to disk or just to ram--I'll have to look.  If it does write to disk I'm not greatly affected since I don't update the weather more than two total times in any given flight.

...you will be assured of the best chance for high performance & longevity anywhere from 50-80% full, even 90% full I've read doesn't severely degrade performance in any way.  However, this as I say is not definitive from what I've read so far--i.e., opinions vary quite a bit on this.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

Noel,

 

Great post! To answer your points...

 

1) I'm buying a built PC from a quality supplier in the UK. The motherboards they list all have that capability and I'm sure they'll make the right connections.

 

2) I'll run that check but again, as Win7 is being installed by them I would expect that to be done.

 

3) I'll install a HDD and setup the pagefile on that.

 

4) I run CCleaner which automatically does that. As this is my first SSD I probably need to educate myself on how best to use them.

 

5) I knew that one. :smile:

 

6)  I intend to install a weather program to another PC (probably my laptop) to ensure maximum CPU usage for FSX.

 

I'm leaning towards a 500Gb SSD which will probably remain below 50% capacity even after several years. That should ensure space does not become a problem.

 

Thank you once again. You've been extremely helpful. :Applause:

[vc10man 732]

 

 

I'm thinking of a Samsung 840 Pro 256Gb SSD

Don't know if you have read my posts regarding this particular make of SSD disk in another thread.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/416986-help-with-ssd-installation-pleeeese/

 

I've just had DHL collect the very same disk bought in April this year, used sparsely in May, then again in August, and now being returned as faulty, back to Samsung, who originally wanted me to pay for shipping it back to them under an RMA.

 

I for one would never ever again buy another Samsung product. Caveat Emptor!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

Don't know if you have read my posts regarding this particular make of SSD disk in another thread.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/416986-help-with-ssd-installation-pleeeese/

 

I've just had DHL collect the very same disk bought in April this year, used sparsely in May, then again in August, and now being returned as faulty, back to Samsung, who originally wanted me to pay for shipping it back to them under an RMA.

 

I for one would never ever again buy another Samsung product. Caveat Emptor!

 

Rick,

 

I did see that thread and your misfortune. In over 20 years of using PCs I've only ever had one disk crash on me. I think it was a Western Digital but it was well over 10 years ago so my memory is a bit vague.

 

I don't think you can brand all Samsung SSDs as unreliable. And retailers are unlikely to stock a disk if it has a poor reputation. It would damage their reputation and cause them a lot of grief from customers.

 

I see you're based in the UK and that the drive failed after 6 months. Your supplier should have supplied a replacement under the Sale of Goods Act 1973 as products have to be of merchantable quality. It shouldn't have been down to you to return it to Samsung at your expense,

 

You don't say who you bought it from but I'm buying a built PC from Scan so I have a 12 month warranty and the drive has a 5 year limited warranty. I have every faith the SSD will be fine.

[vc10man 732]

Ray

 

You have a point or two there, with your argument. But I too equally have a point with Samsung-made products because it was not just this SSD that went down and I was fortunate enough to be told of a piece of recovery software that managed to recover my precious photographs and other data, but have also had 2 digital cameras that went down, and their Customer Services are the pits. However, their Technical Support based in Holland, or the person I was dealing with, was superlative.

 

The drive was bought in April from a Manchester-based firm I use besides Scan, Aria. I only followed Samsung's Technical Support's advice of how to return the defective drive.