"Invalid Entry" Terminal Waypoints in FMC

[creppel 3]

Did you read post #7??

I have Navdata up to date from Navigraph.

[adamant365 28]

The navdata that came with the 777 is up to date and does contain the fixes in question. DMxxx waypoints are definitely in the "Fixes" master file. You should be able to enter them directly in the LEGS page as standard waypoints.

 

However, I noticed in the chart for EDDM, there are waypoints DM456 and DM426 that do NOT exist in the actual SIDSTAR procedure file for EDDM. However, those waypoints are in the master "fix" file so you should be able to add them individually by typing DM426 or DM456 and then line selecting them where you want on the legs page.

 

Are you sure the EDDM chart is up to date? It has an EFF date in 2010 and last revision in 2012.

[Peter Clark 21]

The extra waypoints aren't in the procedure coming from Navigraph. Look at the EDDM file in the pmdg/sidstars directory. Maybe post something on their forum asking why all the intermediate points aren't being translated into the procedure, only the entry and turns?

The navdata that came with the 777 is up to date and does contain the fixes in question. DMxxx waypoints are definitely in the "Fixes" master file. You should be able to enter them directly in the LEGS page as standard waypoints.

 

AFAIK, once a SID/STAR is loaded you as the pilot are unable to change (add/delete) the points contained within the loaded procedure, only pick actions for the points it loaded.

[ESGG 4]

Hi creppel!

 

If the fix is in the database you can normally put it in manually, it's not unusal that ATC ask you to proceed to a fix which is not in the STAR you were given at the beginning of the approach for some reason. But as I understand your question those fixes is not included in the STAR when you select it in the FMC, but they are in your chart. In that case they probably not in the database, either your chart is outdated or the navdata not up to date with this procedure. 

 

But you also say you get an "Invalid Entry" which make me thinking if there is something else who is the problem. You sure you are in the "LEGS" page when you try to enter this fixes? If you try to put in a fix which you are sure is the database (like a nearby VOR), will the FMC accept that?

 

Regards

Johnny

[adamant365 28]

 

AFAIK, once a SID/STAR is loaded you as the pilot are unable to change (add/delete) the points contained within the loaded procedure, only pick actions for the points it loaded.

But if he is given a "direct to" to one of the waypoints that doesn't exist in the STAR file, he should be able to enter that waypoint (as long as it exists in the fix file) at the top of the flight plan on the LEGS page and then line select the next waypoint in the sequence to right below that fix bypassing all the other fixes in the STAR.

[creppel 3]

These waypoints are in the Navigraph cycle but not in the arrival procedure.

I can put any VOR or "normal" waypoint in my FMC and fly direct there.

Try to fly direct DM427. Ops unable...

It is working with the 737 or level-D 767.

[Peter Clark 21]

I still think it's FMC logic preventing the insertion of waypoints into a loaded procedure but someone from PMDG would have to confirm that. The FCTM says that it's prohibited between the FAF and the MAP but you're not there yet. I wonder why Navigraph thinks the intermediate waypoints aren't required. I didn't see them in the EDDM text file either.

[GolfLima99 3]

Same here. Got a lot of directs in EDDP and EDDF the last days. Almost none of the waypoints could be entered manually...and they were as well not listed in the legs page when i selected the transition which should include them according to the charts.

 

Cheers, Volker

[scandinavian13 5,192]

...which would be something to take up with whoever is providing the nav data.

[Peter Clark 21]

Or a combination of people. If the prohibition on entering waypoints isn't supposed to kick in until the FAF then why is it giving INVALID ENTRY when trying to enter waypoints that exist in the generic navdata before the FAF?

[Rampi 0]

...which would be something to take up with whoever is providing the nav data.

 

Once again: it works with the NGX perfectly. AFAIK NGX is using the same Navdata as the T7, so why should it be a nav data issue?

 

/edit: I clearly understand what you mean, that Navigraph (btw, AS NAVData Pro uses just entry and exit point as well) should provide all waypoints on the transition. But I can hardly imagine that its impossible in the real airplane to manually select a terminal waypoint.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Once again: it works with the NGX perfectly. AFAIK NGX is using the same Navdata as the T7, so why should it be a nav data issue?

 

If it's missing waypoints and you're having to manually enter them, it's a navdata issue.

 

The entering them by hand is a separate issue.

 

As far as I know, the FMC here is handling it as it is supposed to.

[phmcr 93]

I support the OP. The same goes for Amsterdam.

Try entering EH645 when on approach for rw18R to widen the approach. But fixes with a name like GORLO are accepted. I guess these STAR fixes (EHxxx) are not accepted in the T7 FMC. The NGX has no problem with it.....

[DLP084 5]

Hi, 

 

no its not a Navdata issue. It should basically work like on the NGX. If not it seems to be a bug.

 

In my real life job I am doing the Navdatabase coding for one of the big Dataproviders.

 

 

These RNAV waypoints are not included in the procedure coding because they have no specific function (speed / altitude / track). They are supposed to be selected as DCTs if needed. There is also a coding table according to which the datas are coded: 

 

Germany for example only includes the edge waypoints in the table. 

 

 

 

 

Other countries like turkey, include every waypoint and not only the edge waypoints:

 

 

 

There should be no difference when using NavdataPro or Navigraph, as LIDO and Jeppesen have the same coding here. 

 

As I don´t own the 777 I cant verify the FMS behavoir by myself. 

 

Question: Does adding the waypoints to the LEGs page first and then selecting them as direct work?

 

 

Jan-Paul

[creppel 3]

 

 

Question: Does adding the waypoints to the LEGs page first and then selecting them as direct work?

 

Negative. Invalid entry.