FTXG+UTX+Others... Making them shake hands

[chad556 1]

This is all getting WAY too difficult to manage. Between having FTX Global, UTX, Scenery Tech LC, and FS Global 2010... how the hell is one supposed to make all of these work? Can someone out there tell me how all of the above should be arranged in the scenery library, if any boxes should be unchecked to avoid conflict, and if Scenery tech is even needed? Im also reading posts where people are having to make big changes in their UTX files in order to get FTX Vector lighting to work... I'm getting a headache over all of this. 

[EngineRoom 205]

Mesh (i.e. FS Global, FS Genesis) - there are no specific requirements. As long as the mesh is correctly installed it will work with UTX and FTXG without any problems.

 

Scenery Tech - have a read of the UTX manual where it talks about the landclass "sandwich" method. Basically put Scenery Tech landclass just below the entry in the scenery library for UTX's urban landclass. FTXG has some of its own landclass files that according to JV should go above any other landclass files you might have. These are supposed to be fixes and calls for specific FTXG textures.

 

UTX - now here's the problem. UTX appears, for me at least, to wipe out FTXG's vector road lights. With UTX enabled I lose my FTXG vector lights. With UTX disabled I get the lights back. This is regardless of whether or not I have disabled UTX's own road lights. My guess is that the UTX scenery files are calling for specific UT road textures which don't have the FTXG lights.

 

I spent a morning over the weekend trying to solve this conflict with no luck. I read some stuff on the Orbx forums but there wasn't any really useful info there...

 

 

 

Im also reading posts where people are having to make big changes in their UTX files in order to get FTX Vector lighting to work...

 

...so I'd be most grateful if you would point me to where you read this so I can have a look myself and try and work things out.

[chad556 1]

 

 

...so I'd be most grateful if you would point me to where you read this so I can have a look myself and try and work things out.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/419199-no-vector-road-lights-with-utx/

 

Let me know if it works for you

[EngineRoom 205]

Thanks Chad, I'll check it out later and get back with my results.

[rlkjmt73 7]

Chad, you are absolutely correct by asking how everything is supposed to work...ha 

 

I think I spent a couple of hours searching all the compatibility threads at Orbx, this forum, and who knows where else.

 

I got this info from the Orbx forum, which is a great place to go to get your answers, especially when you include FTX products.  However, this is not going to give you all the answers, of course, but it may be a start.  I just spent about 10 minutes looking for the thread dealing with SceneryTech, on the Orbx forum, but didn't find the thread I was looking for.  I do remember something there about all the different software you listed above.

 

 

Rod

 

 

 

 

 

The best advice I can give, rather than "put this here, put that there" is to simply think of it like an office pin board... Whatever piece of paper is put up last will cover up the paper below... but if it's a different size, you might still see a bit sticking out the side

 

Also, FSX treats different types of scenery differently:

 

MESH - FSX will always use the most detailed mesh that is has for an area. It does not matter where in the list mesh scenery is placed, but I prefer to keep it toward the bottom just to keep things tidy. Examples would be FS Global, FTX Regions, FS Genesis. Order in the library = Does Not Matter

 

TEXTURES - Textures don't have an entry in the library. They are simply installed into a folder for use when needed. Autogen is a part of the texture so also is not in the library. Examples would be FTX Global, GEX. Order in the Library = Not Applicable (does not have a library entry)

 

LANDCLASS - This type of scenery needs some thought when adding it to your library, or when reorganizing the library... This is because whatever landclass is placed on top, is what you will see. If you have a full FTX region, the landclass data is hand placed and is the best available, so it should be on top. If you have any other landclass software above it, you will see that one instead. Examples would be Open LC, UTX, FTX Full Region. Order in the Library = Most detailed on top, but does not have to be at the top of the library.

 

VECTOR - Most vector scenery packages come with an "exclude" which will turn off any other vector scenery below it in the library. So, just like landclass, you have to decide which vector data you want to see then place it on the top of that list. It does not have to be on the top of the library, just on the top of all other vector sceneries. Examples would be FTX Full Region, UTX, USA Roads. Order in the Library = Most detailed on top, but does not have to be at the top of the library.

 

CUSTOM OBJECTS - This includes any 3D objects like bridges, cities, airports etc. Because a lot of other scenery packs have "excludes" to suppress the scenery below it, 3D custom scenery should always be placed toward the top of the library = The one you want on top and above any other scenery types.

 

 

The key to managing you library is to know exactly what type of scenery you are dealing with (Landclass, Vector, Mesh, Custom) then think of each type seperately.

 

It sounds complicated, but think of it like this:

 

CUSTOM 1

CUSTOM 2

CUSTOM 3

LANDCLASS 1

LANDCLASS 2

VECTOR 1

VECTOR 2

MESH 1

MESH 2

 

This would give exactly the same results as:

 

MESH 1

CUSTOM 1

CUSTOM 2

CUSTOM 3

LANDCLASS 1

VECTOR 1

LANDCLASS 2

VECTOR 2

MESH 2

 

But example 1 is much tidier

 

I think at this point, I can't really explain the library any better than this... And while I am certainly happy to give general advice and help people understand how the sim is working and how to apply that knowledge to organize the library, it would be a full time job to do so on an individual level... And sadly my boss at my real full time job might have an issue with that!

 

I hope this helps a little... Good luck!

[Jayjay 62]

 

 

The key to managing you library is to know exactly what type of scenery you are dealing with (Landclass, Vector, Mesh, Custom) then think of each type seperately

 

And if you are not a scenery guru, how do you recognize Vector from custom?  Landclass is generally easy, as most landclass folder names end with LC.

 

Jean-Jacques

[EngineRoom 205]

Let me know if it works for you

 

Had a read of that thread and it looks quite messy!

 

I'm ever so slightly annoyed that Orbx claim FTXG works with UTX, when it's clear the vector road lighting doesn't. I may be wrong but I seem to recall them posting screenshots of FTXG night lighting running with UTX?

 

My understanding of scenery design is very limited, but I think what's happening is UTX is calling for specific UTX road textures listed in the terrain.cfg. Surely then there must be a way of changing these entries in the terrain.cfg so they instead point to the Orbx roads with vector lighting?

[Jean-Paul 167]

From an UTX developper

 

 

the UTX night lighting objects are scenery objects placed by BGL scenery files and not by entries in the FSX terrain.cfg. These UTX night lighting objects are placed to match the roads which UTX adds and are not based on autogen annotation.

 

More here

[1st fltsimguy 466]

It is interesting how this sort of question keeps coming up over and over again.  To a point where I have been thinking that it should be a chapter in the "tweaking guide".  Next to all the tweaks, scenery layer relationships and "how to do it" and "how to understand it" etc is one of the most important things to know if your an aggressive simmer and want to add (which are most flyers) more and more scenery to enhance the simming experience.

 

In addition to understanding these relationships would be understanding what all the configurers do for various addons.  For example: UTX, REX, FSAddon, UK2000, GEX and others.  By understanding how the config's work or what they are moving around a user can then have a better understanding on the impacts they may or may not have.

 

I dare say it's complicated these days.  I have the fortune of simming since inception in the 1980s so have been able to follow developments.  Those newer to the hobby I am sure would find it quite intimidating.

[chad556 1]

From an UTX developper

 

 

More here

 

SO what I get out of all of that is that there is no way to make the vector lights work at the moment if you use both UTX and FTXG. In all honesty, I echo what EngineRoom said in regards to being somewhat annoyed. I feel sort mislead by the folks at Orbx. They clearly said that that UTX and FTXG were compatible with one another, when clearly key features are not. Just my .02

[EngineRoom 205]

From an UTX developper

 

 

More here

 

Interesting. What caught my attention was the statement that the method UTX uses to add road lights (i.e. via a BGL) was chosen because it reduces the performance impact and can be easily swapped out to have roads without the lights. Apparently adding Orbx lights to UTX roads would have a big performance penalty and the only way to disable the lights would be to totally disable the UTX roads.

 

Really? It's widely accepted that enabling lights in UTX has a huge performance hit. One of the big attractions of FTXG's lights is they have no discernable performance impact, and funnily enough can be switched on and off via FTX Central....

 

I'd really like to have my FTX Global vector lights working with UTX.... but I fear the egoes involved will be a real stumbling block.

 

 

Just to make sure I wasn't imagining it, I just checked out the FTXG manual and this is what it says with regards to UTX compatibility:

 

 

Hmmmmm.

 

Reading the threads over at the Orbx site I can see there appears to be some confusion among both JV and his staff. Perhaps Orbx were a bit too quick off the mark declaring full compatibility with UTX? It's a real shame that one of the breakthrough features of FTXG, a very desirable feature, doesn't work with one of the most popular and desirable scenery packages.

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave!