Reverse Thrust

[Tabs 2,790]

Changes have been made for SP1 that should make it easier to engage the reversers right after MLG touchdown.

[kevinh 409]

I dont think PMDG simulated approach idle wrong, as in moving the TLs fwd to reach a higher approach N1. But I cant check right now.

I didn't mean to imply it was wrong. I'm sure PMDG are well aware of how it should work. It may be an FSX limitation that forces a compromise. It would explain what some users see but that doesn't mean that is actually what is happening.

 

Whatever the cause, it sounds like PMDG have a solution to resolve the problem.

 

 

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[777simmer 117]

Changes have been made for SP1 that should make it easier to engage the reversers right after MLG touchdown.

Cool :-)

Whatever the cause, it sounds like PMDG have a solution to resolve the problem.

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yes, sounds good.

 

Ps, I did not mean to imply you said anything either. I tried to give some info on how the system works, and how it does not work, in reply on various things mentioned in this thread.

[jasoncardeira 30]

A similar thing happens to me. With throttles idle, the reversers only engage after the nose wheel is down. Good that this will be solved

 

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[777simmer 117]

A similar thing happens to me. With throttles idle, the reversers only engage after the nose wheel is down. Good that this will be solved

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Just wondering....is it really untill the nose wheel is down, or is it just the interlock waiting for the reverser sleeves on the engines to be opened?

(try holding the nose of the ground and see if you can reverse at all then).

[jasoncardeira 30]

Not sure. But sometimes i took about 5/7 seconds to put the nose down after the main gear touches the ground. And it won't reverse until the nose gear touches the ground. Right after touch the ground i press F2 and no chance

 

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[777simmer 117]

yeah, because the first thing that happens (or should happen) when you press F2 is that the reverser doors start to open. The REV indication is yellow during transit. When REV is green, the doors are opened and maybe if you hit F2 once more, then....then maybe N1 will increase.

 

Like I said, try to keep the nose in the air after landing (just as an experiment) and when REV is green hit F2 a second time, or more to increase reverse N1.

 

I cant try at the moment because my PC is down :-(

[jasoncardeira 30]

Ok i'll try that, but i think it should not be like that.

 

Thanks,

[kevinh 409]

Tested this just now and reversers deploy  with main gear on ground and nose gear off ground.

 

[777simmer 117]

Great pic :-)

 

Here is my theory:

the delay before you can increase reverse thrust beyond idle is because PMDG even accurately simulated the interlock (mechanic lock) system of the reverser levers.

(I explained the interlock system above)

 

The problem we all have, is that we have no feed back through our TLs.

So whereas the real 777 and the PMDG777 TLs can not be moved passed IDLE reverse untill the interlock unlocks (Reversers opened).... our desktop TLs CAN be moved passed IDLE reverse. Cause they have no mechanical locking mechanism.

however they will not move the PMDG reverser levers beyond idle!

And then when finally the PMDG777 interlock releases, your TLs are sitting all the way back and possibly not sending a changing signal anymore and so the reverser levers stay where they are.

 

So I think if we all just crack the reversers open first...then wait a little till REV is green (above N1 indicator)....and then apply more reverse thrust, then it should work as in real life.

 

I think that when Rayan said:

"Changes have been made for SP1 that should make it easier to engage the reversers right after MLG touchdown"

 

means that either the interlock system is not simulated anymore, or they have found another way to make it easier for us to deal with the interlock system.

[kevinh 409]

I still think it's still all to do with throttle calibration. If the interlock was the problem people would still see the reversers move and a rev green indication but not an N1 increase subsequently. The thrust lever reaches the engagement point before it hits the interlock.

 

 

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[777simmer 117]

I still think it's still all to do with throttle calibration.

If you dont have the throttles calibrated correctly, then ofcourse that is a problem too. I did not mean to imply that the interlock is the ONLY problem. Calibration if for sure the other half of the problem.

If the interlock was the problem people would still see the reversers move and a rev green indication but not an N1 increase subsequently.

Yes....and they are not? I dont know and I cant check cause my PC is down. I doubt that many simmers actually watch their REV indication at all upon landing. I can see how a little detail like that can go unnoticed with everything that is going on during landing. Our SOP have the non flying pilot call out when the reversers have deployed. In FSX we dont have a second guy in the cockpit!

And if you dont monitor the REV indication, and if the interlock system is simulated by PMDG, then that is for sure a good contribution to "the reverser does not work" posts.

The thrust lever reaches the engagement point before it hits the interlock.

I dont know what you mean here. Sorry. Can you refrase please?

[kevinh 409]

If you dont have the throttles calibrated correctly, then ofcourse that is a problem too. I did not mean to imply that the interlock is the ONLY problem. Calibration if for sure the other half of the problem.

It's not about proper calibration as such, it's about how you set them up using FSUIPC. I don't have any problems and I don't use FSUIPC calibration or attempt to drive the reverser by moving the throttle lever into a reverse range past an idle detent.

 

Yes....and they are not? I dont know and I cant check cause my PC is down. I doubt that many simmers actually watch their REV indication at all upon landing. I can see how a little detail like that can go unnoticed with everything that is going on during landing. Our SOP have the non flying pilot call out when the reversers have deployed. In FSX we dont have a second guy in the cockpit!

And if you dont monitor the REV indication, and if the interlock system is simulated by PMDG, then that is for sure a good contribution to "the reverser does not work" posts.

In FSX we have to be both guys. People first notice the reverser not working by not seeing the EICAS REV indications. Then they might look outside and see the reverser sleeve not operating. In the interlock scenario the REV indications function, the sleeve moves but you can't increase N1 to get more reverse thrust. I haven't seen any forum posts describing that scenario. I think they might say things like "I can only get reverse idle".

 

However I do understand that if using an axis to drive the full throttle lever range then the interlock simulation might cause a problem. Though the translation time for the reverse sleeve is quite short and I don't know if FSX lever position would remain at the interlock until the throttle axis was moved.

 

I dont know what you mean here. Sorry. Can you refrase please?

As you lift the reverse lever you reach the point where a microswitch operates to start the deployment process, then you you can move it a little further to reach the interlock which prevents further lever movement until the reverser is fully deployed.

 

Note, I'm simplfying here and in a modern engine there are other soft and hard throttle lever switches that are part of the system but that only confuses things.

[777simmer 117]

Ok, thx.

 

Well, as long as nobody with reverser problems tries....to hit F2 once, after touchdown, and then wait a little for REV to turn green, and then apply more reverse thrust with his reverser levers or hitting F2 several times....we will not know if the interlock system is part of their problem or not.

 

I have two Saitek throttle quadrants.

It tried to use two axes out of them six for reverser levers through FSUIPC.

Could not get it working very well though.

The reversers would test just fine when parked on the ground.

But after landing it took too long and I had to keep moving the reverser levers back and forth till at some point the reverser would be activated.

I did not think ot the interlock system back then, so I cant say if that was the problem or that it was the nose gear that had to be on the ground.

 

I got tired of hat pretty quick and stopped using FSUIPC and used the FSX controller interface to assign my controllers axes.

Ofcourse that does not have a reverser axis to assign, so I just did not use the reversers at all any more.

 

Problem solved, right ;-) lol

 

Anyway, we shall see how it works with SP1

[kevinh 409]

Ok, thx.

 

Well, as long as nobody with reverser problems tries....to hit F2 once, after touchdown, and then wait a little for REV to turn green, and then apply more reverse thrust with his reverser levers or hitting F2 several times....we will not know if the interlock system is part of their problem or not.

We do know that as people do that all the time. I tried it yesterday and watched closely what happens. Pressing and holding F2 works perfectly well. The throttles in the sim stay at the interlock position until REV green then go to full reverse.

 

I have two Saitek throttle quadrants.

It tried to use two axes out of them six for reverser levers through FSUIPC.

Could not get it working very well though.

The reversers would test just fine when parked on the ground.

But after landing it took too long and I had to keep moving the reverser levers back and forth till at some point the reverser would be activated.

I did not think ot the interlock system back then, so I cant say if that was the problem or that it was the nose gear that had to be on the ground.

If the reversers aren't activating then the problem wasn't the interlock simulation, which does not affect reverse activation. It's possible the interlock causes another minor problem if you pull straight through to full reverse. The simulated throttles may stay at the interlock position unless you move the throttles again.

 

I got tired of hat pretty quick and stopped using FSUIPC and used the FSX controller interface to assign my controllers axes.

Ofcourse that does not have a reverser axis to assign, so I just did not use the reversers at all any more.

 

Problem solved, right ;-) lol

 

Anyway, we shall see how it works with SP1

Well, you could always use F2 like everybody else without a reverse axis assigned. B)