I have been playing around with Flight Simulator since 1988 and have flown everything from the default Cessna to a B-36. The new Flight 1 ATR-72 is the most addicting plane that I have ever flown on a Simulator. It seems to have the good handling qualities of a light plane and a commercial jet all at the same time. The views out of the Cockpit are amazing, and you feel like you are sitting in a real aircraft. The owners manual is huge and requires some study, but once you get it down, you can't wait to fly it again. They have come out with 2 service packs and the customer support is as good as the plane. What really is impressive is that there are quite a few Real Airline ATR Pilots that have the aircraft on their PC's and regularly contribute to the Forum on this aircraft. Ask a question and within a few hours an Airline Pilot is giving you an answer. It doesn't get any better than that as far as I am concerned...:)

I agree - very attractive package with awesome flight dynamics.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

"It seems to have the good handling qualities of a light plane and a commercial jet all at the same time."I agree totally. You can easily shoot tight, racetrack approaches at the small fields but if you want to hang with the jets at the hubs, no problems there either. The ATR easily stays in the 230 kt range as long has you keep a steady descent on approach, so you won't be holding anyone up. Then, you can use the plane's de-acceleration capability to slow down late into the final. Lots of fun choices about where to fly and how to fly this plane. I like the systems modeling too. Planning out a smooth flight and cranking this plane up from cold and dark is one of the most complex experiences I've had in a flight simulator. :-) (you do have the option to bypass the cold and dark startup however).

it is good but has a very buggy LNAV ( Will be patched soon ) Other then that I love her! But not as much as the PMDG 737! Nothing can top that ( Until they release the 747 I guess :) )

There's a new patch (SP2) on the ATR web site. It should solve the LNAV problems.

You guys are going to scoff but I actually got a refund for the ATR (what did he say?!?!). Truth is, I just didn't have time to figure out how to fly it- I love complex planes, but the ATR is a whole new plane, and with a 1 year old, and another one on the way, I don't even have time to run through the tutorial. I hope they make a boxed edition with a printed manual- At somepoint in the future (maybe the summer) I will have 3 hours, a couple times a week to play with it.But from the 15 minutes I did spend in the plane, in looks amazing. I got as far as starting the right engine and putting it in HOTEL mode :)

>You guys are going to scoff but I actually got a refund for>the ATR (what did he say?!?!). Truth is, I just didn't have>time to figure out how to fly it- I love complex planes, but>the ATR is a whole new plane, and with a 1 year old, and>another one on the way, I don't even have time to run through>the tutorial. I hope they make a boxed edition with a printed>manual- At somepoint in the future (maybe the summer) I will>have 3 hours, a couple times a week to play with it.>>But from the 15 minutes I did spend in the plane, in looks>amazing. I got as far as starting the right engine and>putting it in HOTEL mode :)For almost all software today, it is too costly to print a manual , especially the size of one needed for the ATR-72 ( almost 500 pages) The manual is included with the program in PDF form and you can either print it yourself or do what I did and take it to Kinkos and have them print it.

I have to agree with the original poster, the ATR beats hands down everything I have flown on FS to date, even PMDG 737NG. It's all a matter of taste of course. Like someone said above, what I like about that aircraft is the fexibility it offers, you can take-off from the most obscure municipal airport and land at one of the world's largest without any problems. Shoot and approach at 150 kts or a circuit at 110 kts, it does it all!And of course the model is beautiful, the air file is spot on with the manual. Hand flying it is a joy, the panels are superb and so are the gauge and the VC is a master piece.The best money I have ever spent for FS.Nick

I'm looking foward to picking this aircraft up as well. I have the Aeroworx B200, the PMDG B1900, and I think the ATR will make the final completion to the high quality turboprop hangar. But something got me to thinking... (not so easy). PMDG did a very interesting concept with the 1900, they basically released a plane that was visually stunning, but behind the scenes is basically just the default King Air, which is ok. I'm not complaining. For the price, it is still probably one of my favorite purchases ever. I knew what to expect, and I got everything expected. I fly it often. However, sometimes I want a little more complexity, and then I fly the B200 from Aeroworx. I plan on purchasing the ATR for when I want even a little more complexity than the B200. I think I will fly all 3 aircraft, depending on my mood, and the amount of free time I have. My point is this...If I was in charge of marketing at Flight1 (or any publisher) I would definitely consider offering a highly-complex add-on in multiple forms. Such as ATR-lite/ATR-standard/ATR-Pro and set each one at a different price point. The "lite" range would compete with aircraft like the 1900 from PMDG (low cost, great looks, no complexity) the "standard" would compete with mid range products like the B200 from Aeroworx, and the "Pro" would be the flagship, all options included product. That way each customer could get what they desire, and the single product could be represented in different areas of the market, at different price points, and get some of those other sales, instead of being a product so advanced that only a very few products can even be compared. I know that packaging 3 separate products adds some grief and overhead to the publisher, but I don't think it would be too bad (I think ROI would be achieved). As all of the components are identical between the different versions, just some have more of the components than others. Think of it this way, its still easier than selling 3 different aircraft, which most large publishers do anyway.Anyway, still looking forward to getting the ATR, and taking the pdf to Kinkos. :)Jordan Moore

> The manual is included with the program in>PDF form and you can either print it yourself or do what I did>and take it to Kinkos and have them print it. Out of curiosity, how much did that cost?Barry

yea really...kinkos??...they charge about $.50 cents per page near me (Long Island, NY) and thats for b&w too, color is more...so we're talking about something that you cant really consider doing in some areas of the country..it would be cheaper to buy another $50 worth of printer cartridge and do it at home...but then you have wear and tear for 500 pages to think about...cheaperst way would probably be at a professional commerical printing service where im guessing it might cost around $50-$100 unbound.This is one reason why i havent bothered purchasing the ATR yet...i cant learn all that info by tasking back and forth onscreen to the annoying pdf manuals...im one of those customers who would appreciate an option to be able to purchase an addon plane with a hard copy manual at additional cost...fine, let me download the plane right away but then the darn manual and cd in the mail for me...that way i get to play right away for kicks but in a few days ill have an actual manual to read through while im flying the thing..and a cd of the plane at no extra cost for backup.whatever :-)Dave

>>Such as ATR-lite/ATR-standard/ATR-Pro and>set each one at a different price point. I don't see the point here. The way ATR is now priced I would say it is very affordable. If you don't want all the complexity - you can easily avoid it. Just program "ready to taxi" and you can get off the ground in 1 minute. Considering the current price of this package and nightmare in managing folks who wanted to upgrade from their "lite" version to "complex" I don't consider it a practical pursuit.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Kinkos did mine for $33. You can have them do the fron part of it without all the data sheets for about 1/2 that, but I am constantly referring to the data sheets so I am glad I did the entire book. Makes for same great off-sim reading.

To add to what Michael said above:1. The market does not exist for several, or even 2 versions of each product. It is not as simple as one would think to do this, and in the case of the ATR, our contract with ATR did not allow for this. Ultimately, you would find that the cost difference between the two would versions be minimal. The next problem with versions was one experienced by MS, when they offered "standard" and "pro" versions of FS, and that is; many buy by price (they buy the least expensive), then when they see they do not have all the features they want (you don't expect everyone to read the features list, do you?), they then want an "upgrade" for a reduced price. This is a nightmare!2. As to printed manuals, again, the market does not support this. Sure we could print / bind some on "spec", but even then the price would not be cheap, when you add shipping to it. My suggestion: Print out just the sections / pages of the manual that you feel you will need to refer to time and time again.I do not honestly understand why anyone would let the size of the manual stand in their way of any product. I mean, my real Jepp subscriptions cost many times what it costs to print out the entire ATR manual, and I just purchased a real Beech A36 manual, and it was $117, and that is just for a Beech POH.We're talking $34.95 for the entire ATR product. Heck, a standard 3D aircraft model, one not used for FS, one without panels, gauges, flight dynamics, sounds; one that cannot even be flown, can easily cost that!Take a look at this example:http://www.3-d-models.com/3d-models-tanks-planes-weapons.htmThese are just 3D models, for use in projects, etc. The planes are of no use in FS, and cannot be flown. Note the prices.It is important to remember that FS add-ons sell in very small quantities when compared to many other software or "game" products. We're not talking tens of thousands of units here. If we were, it would be a different story as to what could be done.Over the life of the ATR we will most likely sell a number of copies that represents less than 1% of what MS sells of any version of FS. Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

The "I'm not buying without a printed manual" camp have completely missed the boat afaic. Theres just no way you'd get a printed and bound manual (of any useable quality) from F1 directly for less than the cost of taking the pdf to yr local printers and doing it yourself - and the one you print yourself would almost definitely be more useful than what you'd likely get from F1 anyway since you can bind it however you want (rather than some cheap glue-binding and 500 pages of 9pt typeface)...