Replacing I7 930 system

[ant_1984 20]

 

 

There is some truth to the old technology statement Howell states above about the 32bit operating environment fsx is coded in

 

Oh I agree with this part here, but so far as performance goes there is just no way adding a second networked PC would give as much improvement in FSX performance as moving from the old Nehalem to a new Haswell as 4.4-4.5Ghz.

[NGXfanatic 85]

I understand Howell's take on gaining performance by offloading some apps, like weather programs, to a separate computer.  In a way, that is similar to something we all wished FSX did natively: offloading more tasks to the video card to take the load of the CPU.  It makes perfect sense, and of course it will help.  But how much benefit would one get?  Not as much as a new CPU, and only if the CPU is decidedly more faster than the one it is replacing.  And based on the passmark benchmarks cited earlier, a CPU upgrade is justified to me because in terms of raw speed, the replacement (4770k) is about twice as fast as my original (930).   No way I'd get the same performance improvement if I moved Active Sky 2012 or some other small ancillary programs I need for FSX to a networked computer.  I don't have proof, but come on, it seems like a no brainer which approach is better. 

 

I don't have access to a cheap old computer, and I don't want the hassle of starting up another desktop/laptop every time I want to fly for marginal benefits.  And I said it before, part of the reason I want to upgrade is because I don't want to take the chance that these 3 1/2 year old parts may die in the near future.  I know most PCs can last 5 years or so, but again, I'm not comfortable taking the chance, and I can still get a decent amount of money if I sell the parts on eBay. 

 

John's suggestion to wait for Black Friday sales sounds like a great idea.  Have their traditionally been good sales by Amazon or Newegg on computer parts at that time?

[dazz 69]

 

 

to the tune of $800 (New Motherboard, CPU and Memory) 

 

You could reuse your current RAM (8GB), get an I5 4670K that performs the same as a I7 4770K and a Z87 board, all for 350 - $400

 

 

the replacement (4770k) is about twice as fast as my original (930)

 

more like a 50 - 60% faster, but still quite a lot

[Howell 7]

I have done some CPU testing on my CPU (i7 930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz overclocked to 4.2 GHz) and with FSX running I am not even using all my CPU power, so I am not sure if upgrading hardware will do any better unless you are using this for other games which I can understand upgrading, but still your specs look great with a new graphic card and more memory.

 

  I do understand not wanting to run a second computer, but it does do wonders.  You could really get nerdy and raid a couple of SSD.....this would be huge in performance......

 

  I could be wrong, so please dont chew me out to bad.......

[BrianG 12]

As well, I was considering upgrading.

 

I have an I7-870 CPU ( 2.9 GHZ), AMD 6800 ( 1 GB ) series Graphics card. I wanted to replace those with an 4770k and Nvidia 770 card.

Rest of my system consists of a Gigabyte GA-P55 board, 850 watt power supply, 8 GB ram.

I've never overclocked my CPU. Maybe I don't need a new CPU- perhaps just over clock what I have already? Could I benefit from a new graphics and CPU. Not opposed to spending the money if I can get a significant improvement in performance. Any advise is appreciated.

 

 

Thanks so much.

 

Brian G

[NGXfanatic 85]

I've never overclocked my CPU. Maybe I don't need a new CPU- perhaps just over clock what I have already? Could I benefit from a new graphics and CPU. Not opposed to spending the money if I can get a significant improvement in performance. Any advise is appreciated.

I don't know what your FSX settings are, your budget, or if you are or aren't happy with your performance, but I will say that overclocking will make your system feel brand new.   I would read up on overclocking first, and if you are comfortable, give it a try and see if it makes a significant improvement in your sim or other games.   My overclocked almost 4 year old system, from stock 2.8 to 4.2 ghz, still feels very sprightly, and I have no immediate need to upgrade.  But with all the new high fidelity addons, and my insistence to run 100% AI traffic, I am noticing the toll to my frames, so I feel an upgrade is in order. 

[BrianG 12]

AJ,

Thanks for the note about overclocking. It sounds fairly complicated. I could allow $700-800 for the upgrade.  I'm not happy with performance. With FSDT KLAX, on Vatsim, using only FSrealWX lite weather, nothing else, I'm averaging in the low to mid teens when landing the NGX.

 

As for settings, Autogen is dense, Scenery complexity is very dense, cloud distance at 100 miles. World of AI traffic gets taken away with Vatsim running.

 

Thanks again.

[NGXfanatic 85]

I have done some CPU testing on my CPU (i7 930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz overclocked to 4.2 GHz) and with FSX running I am not even using all my CPU power, so I am not sure if upgrading hardware will do any better unless you are using this for other games which I can understand upgrading, but still your specs look great with a new graphic card and more memory.

 

  I do understand not wanting to run a second computer, but it does do wonders.  You could really get nerdy and raid a couple of SSD.....this would be huge in performance......

 

  I could be wrong, so please dont chew me out to bad.......

Hey Howell, you have the same exact CPU setup as me, pretty cool.   I hear what you are saying about FSX not using all the CPU, but that has been the case for as long as FSX/FS9 has been around, especially since FSX doesn't not take advantage off all the cores.  With that said, FSX still benefits from the raw horsepower of the CPU, so the 20% or so improvement in migrating from the 930 to 4770k will undoubtedly help in my situation.  I average about 30 fps, even with 100% AI, at maybe 70% of the places I fly to in the PMDG NGX/777.  But it's the 30% of my time in the sim, when I'm at heavy payware airports with cloudy skies and I see my frames dip to the low teens with slight stuttering, that makes the 20% improvement in cpu performance the most important to me.  I notice the change when I gain 1 or 2 fps, it's amazing how it makes a world of difference when frames are that low.  It means I don't have to reduce the sliders on my AI traffic, which basically is the only setting I "trim" when I fly into frame intensive areas.  Otherwise, my sliders in the graphics settings are reasonable and remain consistent whenever I use FSX: I always fly with dense autogen and extremely dense scenery complexity and cloud draw at 60 miles.  I can imagine that with the new cpu, I could nudge up the autogen to very dense permanently, and increase cloud density.  And maybe I dont' have to worry about reducing AI density to 60% at heavy payware airports.   So many possibilities await, because I will have more room to play with with the added frames, even if it's not much, because every frame counts in FSX. 

 

I appreciate the advice about setting up a networked computer, as I have read a lot about it here in the forums.   If I had an extra laptop around, sure I'd probably do it, and I'm sure it would help a little.  But my mind is made up, I'm getting a new CPU/mobo/RAM/GPU, it's just a matter of deciding between SB and Haswell. 

 

The more I read about Haswell, the more depressed I get.  I mean, I know I'm probably going with Haswell as it is clock for clock faster than SB, but I was hoping for a real substantial improvement over the 3 year old SB.   Intel really have let the gaming/FSX enthusiast crowd down.  Without AMD as a competitor, and in this new Post PC age where laptops/tablets rule and even consoles have taken a bite out of the enthusiast PC market, I think we have reached the end as far as the once exciting PC hardware race is concerned.  Haswell is really all about efficiency, and geared towards the laptop crowd.  This is not the chip platform I was looking forward to upgrading to 3 years ago.

[ant_1984 20]

 

 

I have done some CPU testing on my CPU (i7 930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz overclocked to 4.2 GHz) and with FSX running I am not even using all my CPU power, so I am not sure if upgrading hardware will do any better unless you are using this for other games which I can understand upgrading, but still your specs look great with a new graphic card and more memory.

 

FSX is CPU hungry. I'm not sure what you're using to measure CPU usage but many of us here at AVSIM have tested and compared results with CPU's at various clockspeeds. There are a number of threads here on AVSIM.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/329116-fsxmark11/

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/412162-cpus-compared-clock-for-clock-fsxmarkcpu/

 

A Haswell I7 at 4Ghz beats a Lynnfield I7 at 4Ghz by 9FPS already. Add overclocking to that and you have a significant difference. 

[NGXfanatic 85]

FSX is CPU hungry. I'm not sure what you're using to measure CPU usage but many of us here at AVSIM have tested and compared results with CPU's at various clockspeeds. There are a number of threads here on AVSIM.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/329116-fsxmark11/

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/412162-cpus-compared-clock-for-clock-fsxmarkcpu/

 

A Haswell I7 at 4Ghz beats a Lynnfield I7 at 4Ghz by 9FPS already. Add overclocking to that and you have a significant difference. 

"You could also say that when it comes to FPS in FSX, Haswell @ 4.30GHz = IvyBridge @ 4.77GHz = SandyBridge-E @ 5.02GHz." 

 

Thanks for those links!  That line I quote here from the 2nd link is exactly the comparison I was looking for.  I think I can finally say that Haswell is the CPU for me.

I appreciate your assistance Ant.

[CaptKornDog 281]

Hi AJ, in the exact same boat as you, so this is a really timely thread :lol:

 

Keep us posted on the hardware you settle on, how the overclocking goes, and if you're able to upgrade the OS "in-place". 

 

 

Cheers,

Dylan

 

Likewise :lol:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/416543-if-i-could-upgrade-1-or-2-things-on-my-system/

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hi Kyle, anyone else here following my indecision......I found an excellent link from the original FSX guru, NickN which ties in perfectly to what I was looking for in terms of what the hardware scene is like presently and the best choice out there for FSX:

 

http://www.simforums.com/forums/the-fsx-computer-system-the-bible-by-nickn_topic46211.html

 

I can't believe I didn't think of him first when I started this post, as I have followed his advice religiously over the years, but I figured he was not a frequent contributor anymore, especially since it's been argued that his opinions and tweaks are outdated what with faster hardware and newer tweaks from *******/Bojote and others here.  I'm excited to know he is still at it, and in a nutshell, what he suggests as a great baseline system ties in with what some folks have said here.   Consequently, his ideal system consists of the Haswell 4770k, an Asus mobo (anything over $180), 8 gigs RAM, and the Nvidia 780 GPU, which are exactly the specs I was beginning to figure out on my own is the best system for the buck!   This post is just what I needed all along, and if anyone else here feels they are rusty when it comes to the relation between hardware and FSX, this post is pure gold.  

 

I just have to decide on the mobo, the ram, and which brand 780 gpu.  Also, should I reuse my CPU cooler?  It's a 1366 design, but I think Anthony here mentioned in one of the links above that 1366 and 1150 socket coolers are interchangeable.   But even so, is my cooler adequate?  It's a Thermalright U120extreme 120mm, and is not produced anymore. 

[Bobu 0]

The 4770k was a massive upgrade for me. I had an i7 885k overclocked to 4 GHz and this 4770k absolutely crushes it running stock. There is no comparison.

[idahosurge 2]

 

I just have to decide on the mobo, the ram, and which brand 780 gpu.  Also, should I reuse my CPU cooler?  It's a 1366 design, but I think Anthony here mentioned in one of the links above that 1366 and 1150 socket coolers are interchangeable.   But even so, is my cooler adequate?  It's a Thermalright U120extreme 120mm, and is not produced anymore. 

 

If you want to stay with an air cooler the Thermalright Archon SB-E x2 is what Nick recommends for the 4770K and it is what I use.

 

At a 4.5GHz on air OC without the IHS mod max core temp on OCCT Linpack AVX 64 Bits was 75C.

 

Did the IHS mod and at 4.6GHz on OCCT Linpack AVX 64 Bits the max core temp was 81C.

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20582/cpu-tri-93/Thermalright_Archon_SB-E_X2_Universal_CPU_Tower_Cooler_Sockets_775_115x_1366_2011_AM2_AM2_AM3_FM1.html?tl=c14s1037b34

 

My case is a HAF-X and the case you use does matter.  You need to use a case with really good airflow, it helps a lot in getting rid of the heat.

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hey Idaho, I remember seeing you over at NickN's forum when I was deciding on my current system in 2010, I chose the same RAM: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/282261-new-i7-build-960-or-930/

 

How time flies, right?   This system is still a beast, considering it's age, but I do need to upgrade as I missed my normal "every 2 year" upgrade cycle.

 

I'm afraid the Archon SB-E x2 is not going to fit my Antec 900 case.   I really want to avoid getting a new case, unless I can find proof that this case is detrimental to the airflow to the new CPU.   I think I'll try keeping my old Thermalright cooler initially, I'll see what I can find that looks like it will fit.