Boeing 777 Worldliner Professional vs PMDG 777

[horani 43]

 

 

Yes horani, and there's that quick view select, but sometimes I would like to be able to see the outside view and one or more instruments, preferably on wider / readable versions.

 

Got it -

What if there was a PMDG 777 for X-Plane, that would be incredible!

 

That would be great, however as the FlightFactor 777 is quite good, I'd rather have the NGX for X-Plane done by PMDG.

[jcomm 5,882]

After reading the reply from the WL 777 team, I am taken to believe that probably such a complex aircraft will have to wait for X-Plane 11.

 

Yet, a friend who bought and is using the recently released LES Saab 340, told me the level of complexity and sophistication is HUGE. Using plugins much can certainly be achieved. After all, what PMDG does with their NGX and 777 is mostly done outside of FSX...

[horani 43]

After reading the reply from the WL 777 team, I am taken to believe that probably such a complex aircraft will have to wait for X-Plane 11.

 

Yet, a friend who bought and is using the recently released LES Saab 340, told me the level of complexity and sophistication is HUGE. Using plugins much can certainly be achieved. After all, what PMDG does with their NGX and 777 is mostly done outside of FSX...

 

LES Saab 340A = PMDG quality in X-Plane. What an amazing add-on!

[ohsirus 241]

They're limited by the core X-Plane 10 characteristics.

 

In his answer to a post I did today at the ".org" one of the authors kindly replied and mentioned X-Plane 11 probably bringing some new possibilitites:

 

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=70730#entry766300

 

Seriously XP11???  I bought XP9 thinking it would get better, then XP10 and was like yeah this will be the big one when it all comes together and now......XP11!!! So once again drop development and move onto the next $version$. Don't think we will ever get AI and fixed ATC.

[BrianKoehler99 13]

Seriously XP11???  I bought XP9 thinking it would get better, then XP10 and was like yeah this will be the big one when it all comes together and now......XP11!!! So once again drop development and move onto the next $version$. Don't think we will ever get AI and fixed ATC.

xp11 is around 2years away

[ohsirus 241]

xp11 is around 2years away

 

Oh ok....That sounds reasonable.

[LAdamson 240]

-flight models for helis and planes are better and more realistic in xp10

 

I already know about the helis, but you'll have to explain your ideas for the specifics of planes. There are a lot of planes out there, and too many generalized statements in regards to flight models. There is quite a range, between stink and awesome. That applies to both sims..........at least in my mind.

[jcomm 5,882]

Both are good sims.

 

Both have great add-ons.

 

Both have bad add-ons.

 

Both can be used to simulate flight in a plausible representation of the World.

 

One will continue to be developed. It's in permanent development... thus, we can expect it can only get better...

 

The other is being kept alive artificially thanks to the tallent of the original design team, those Mighty Aces, and to the excellent add-ons that are still being made available.

 

More than people claiming that MSFS's flight dynamics model is bad (which of course is not what BrianKoehler99 said), what really flips me is to read some add-on manuals where this and that limitations are allways excused through the things the Aces did wrong... What a great great simulation platform they designed that still today, next to 64 bit simulators, can provide such a great time to it's users, and so much money to 3pds...

[horani 43]

Both are good sims.

 

Both have great add-ons.

 

Both have bad add-ons.

 

Both can be used to simulate flight in a plausible representation of the World.

 

One will continue to be developed. It's in permanent development... it also has some excellent add-ons...

 

The other is being kept alive artificially thanks to the tallent of the original design team, those mighty Aces, and to the excellent add-ons that are still being made available.

 

Well said, sir!

[BrianKoehler99 13]

Both are good sims.

 

Both have great add-ons.

 

Both have bad add-ons.

 

Both can be used to simulate flight in a plausible representation of the World.

 

One will continue to be developed. It's in permanent development...

 

The other is being kept alive artificially thanks to the tallent of the original design team, those Mighty Aces, and to the excellent add-ons that are still being made available.

 

More than people claiming that MSFS's flight dynamics model is bad, what really flips me is to read some add-on manuals where this and that limitations are allways excused through the things the Aces did wrong... What a great great simulation platform they designed that still today, next to 64 bit simulators, can provide such a great time to it's users, and so much money to 3pds...

I agree, great post jc

[MarioDonick 752]

And now back to the original topic ;-)

[MdMax 233]

My main issues with the Flight Factor 777:

- I wish I had more time to fly it.

- Online networks like IVAO still don't have a 64-bit client.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/419769-777-luxembourg-ellx-to-keflavik-bikf/

[FlyBoyMike 38]

I own both the PMDG and FF 777 and will say that even though the FF one is a great add-on and simulates the systems fairly accurately I still think the PMDG one takes it that one step further in overall complexity. I would have to say that I find flying the PMDG 777 more enjoyable, particularly when hand-flying I usually won't engage AP till I'm at least 10,000ft or FL100, sometimes I'll just continue on till cruise level because it just feels SOOO nice!

 

Also, in terms of the PMDG 777 being a more 'complete' simulation they have fully simulated maintenance ops and service-based failures based on RW numbers which is cool. There are also many different minor details that I think also greatly add to the overall immersion factor.

 

-Time taken for the APU to start is more realistic

-Fuel systems (particularly fuel burn) are more realistic

-The hydraulic system seems to operate more realistically

-The power-up system self-test cycle is simulated just like in the real 777. This is done whenever the 777 is powered from cold-and-dark state.

-The operation of the auto-throttle system seems more realistic, the AT master switches on the MCP are always on and aren't moved during normal ops, this actually threw me off initially as it's operated differently in the FF 777.

-The FMC in the FF 777 is well simulated but has limitations which I find a bit annoying such as the pre-programmed limits when entering cruise ALT and VNAV profile calculations. Sometimes the data will get discarded when numbers aren't kept within certain limits.

-VREF speeds seem to be calculated more realistically

-The sounds...OMG the sounds! the ambient noises and groans that the PMDG 777 makes are just INCREDIBLE, and engine spool-up sounds!

-The engine spool-up itself seems more realistic as I always found the N1 position on the EICAS never matched up with the amount of throttle I was actually giving the FF 777 particularly during taxiing. This always gives the impression that a lot of thrust is required to get the FF moving even on light loads.

-Operation of all doors including cargo doors and ground connections. Full integration into the FMC also makes this really nice.

-Operation of EFIS, MCP, and lights knobs/dials is a lot nicer.

 

Reading through the FCOM's and FCTM I find that I'm coming across many more differences between the two as well as the limitations in the FF 777.

 

Graphically both have done a fine job especially after the VC update from FF but the PMDG has that overall more 'rugged', realistic VC. Another thing about the FF 777 is that they have already released the -300ER as an expansion which I like as that's my favourite in the series.

 

I think that more accurate wind depiction and OAT at high altitude is something that would be extremely beneficial in XP10 and still lacking on that platform as this really helps if you want to do proper and accurate flight planning when flying the big jets such as the FF 777 and find that I can never plan long flights as well (or realistically) as I could in FSX. I find that this, for me anyway, is still one of the big limitations for this type of flying in XP. I purchased the PFPX flight planner a while back prior to getting the PMDG 777 and find that this wouldn't be of much use in XP at the moment.

- Online networks like IVAO still don't have a 64-bit client.

 

Would love to fly the FF 777 on VATSIM as well but unfortunately it's the same situation with no 64-bit support.

[michelair 14]

After reading this post and several others about X-plane, If I were Laminar Research, I would be catering to Robert at PMDG, it sounds like their are many people like myself that on the fence about jumping to X-Plane. I will have to admit when PMDG starts creating aircraft for X-plane, I will hit the buy button.

 

I have enjoyed MS for a long time, I and will continue in the future, but  knowing what a 64bit operating system can do for gaming applications makes me hope that it comes sooner than later...

 

I am sure the X-Plane 777 is a great aircraft, however as long as people are asking about should they or shouldn't buy it, tells me that there is market share for PMDG to grow and expand their market share in the X-Plane platform...

 

And If and when they do other developers will follow, and I am sure the lack of AI and other things that are in X-Plane that need developed or improved will happen rather quickly....

 

Just my thoughts...

[jcomm 5,882]

I would have to say that I find flying the PMDG 777 more enjoyable, particularly when hand-flying I

 

But unfortunately not realistic. None of the 3 flight system laws are correctly simulated.

 

The PMDG 777 has a problem with the interpretation of some aspects of the Normal Law, but even with that small quirk, it does a tremendous job at simulating the kind of "support" the Boeing variant of the Fly-By-Wire provides, and is completely inexistant on the FF 777. Probably that is the reason why you find the FF 777 more interesting to handfly...

 

On the real thing, and in the PMDG 777, when handflying you can start a turn and it'll keep you level on the flightpath up to 30º bank.

It'll also keep your flightpath when changes in configuration ( flaps, gear, spoilers ) or thrust  are operated.