Should near-miss reporting

http://www.nsc.org/D...issCase_R13.pdf become mandatory?.

 

 That link isn't to do with aviation but as it is separation loss or Operational Incident reporting has been mandatory for MANY years.

In the Bodensee tragedy they got 100 ft closer to each other. Read the/Wait for the official accident report ...

I just watched the Überlingen mid-air collision story on Nat Geo's Seconds from Disaster thanks to your posting Ollie.  That situation with the TCAS response sends chills up your spine.  Even more chilling is had the Russian children been taken to the correct airport in Moscow after arriving, this never would have happened.  The bus going to the wrong airport caused a 2 day delay in their trip to Barcelona which put them on the ill-fated flight.  Scary from all aspects.

In the Überlingen catastrophe one crew (four people on the flightdeck, IIRC) did not adhere to the TCAS RA - and the other (freighter) crew knew what was going to happen exactly because of that (see the enclosed CVR transcripts).

 

In the case at hand here, one crew failed to report their TCAS manoeuvre to ATC - definitely a lot of room for improvement for both crews ... (both from very well known airlines ...)

Seeing this makes me realize it has been over 10 years since the last time I did Pythagoras.....1104.5 feet apart

 

Dusted off the old cobwebs on that one  :lol:

 

Might want to check that again. If the aircraft horizontal separation was measured at several miles then the aircraft would have been a lot more than 1,100 ft apart.

 

In both cases given the vertical separation was very small compared to the horizontal separation, so the actual separation would have been very close to the horizontal separation.

Considering the headline picture, compared to the actual event footage...I think that this has to be one of the most over exaggerated new items I've ever seen in regards to aviation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8qU09_T8ps

How did this happen? Well we are human, plain and simple. The PM read back the correct course correction and the PF did the exact opposite....

 

Will be interesting to read the CVR transcript, and also find out if the resolution advisorys blaring out of the speakers affected what the PF heard from ATC and the PM

Haven't read the actual report, but on a blog that usually gets the technical stuff right I read that one of the pilots carried out the instruction that was meant for the other plane.

Haven't read the actual report, but on a blog that usually gets the technical stuff right I read that one of the pilots carried out the instruction that was meant for the other plane.

 

 

the Board's report reads:

 

 

It was apparent that both crews had taken each others’ instructions, and the Board

found it hard to determine why this had occurred; unfortunately no Human Factor report was available

from either crew. The Board was surprised that all four pilots had misheard or misinterpreted the

avoiding action instructions despite at least one of the crews reading them back correctly.

 

the Board's report reads:

Thanks for that .

Believe it or not there are probably at least a thousand near misses or near hits as they should be called every week around the world due to a multitude of reasons.

 

A point about the Überlingen mid-air collision, one of the Swiss controllers involved in the accident was murdered on his front door step in front of his children by a father of one of the children who died in the Tu154. very sad indeed.

Might want to check that again. If the aircraft horizontal separation was measured at several miles then the aircraft would have been a lot more than 1,100 ft apart.

It was based on 1100 ft horizontal separation with a 100 foot rise. The math is correct but rounded off.

 

 

 

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Thing is, there was never an 1100feet of horizontal separation issue.

 

 The closest they got to each other before the required vertical separation was achieved was 2.8nm which is just over 17,000 feet of lateral/horizontal separation. As it was they crossed tracks 1.6nm in trail of each other.

 

 

It was based on 1100 ft horizontal separation with a 100 foot rise. The math is correct but rounded off.

 

I think you misread the numbers then. The aircraft never had 1,100ft horizontal separation. You've taken the two figures given for the vertical separation when they were in fact horizontally separated by several miles.

A point about the Überlingen mid-air collision, one of the Swiss controllers involved in the accident was murdered on his front door step in front of his children by a father of one of the children who died in the Tu154. very sad indeed.

I thought the guy lost his two kids and wife.

I think you misread the numbers then. The aircraft never had 1,100ft horizontal separation. You've taken the two figures given for the vertical separation when they were in fact horizontally separated by several miles.

 

Yeah Nah....

 

What I saw was a post from Father Bill that said 1100' horizontal and 100' vertical based on the shortest possible distances.....so I did the ole Pythagoras Theorem....because I haven't thought about Pythagoras in a friggen long time.....

 

it isn't anything to do with the actual distance, just based on what I saw in Father Bill's post. 

 

sometimes you guys read too much into things is all, but that is what a Forum is all about

 

Cheers

_{Can't tell left from right.  I wonder if there may be pilots out there who suffer from this condition?  It's hard to imagine unless you've actually met someone who really can't tell the difference.  I remember years ago driving with my wife's friend and having to give her directions to get somewhere.  I had to say turn 'my side' or turn 'your side'.  Occasionally I lapsed to using left\right and was met with a blank expression.  A bit off topic but did remind me of this particular person.}