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thissmallfish

Real world pilot careers and the aircraft they fly "on the way up"

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As I understand it, they want totally fresh cadets that they can mould in the BA-way from day 1.

 

Edit: I can understand why they want to control the standard of training from the very earliest point.

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As I understand it, they want totally fresh cadets that they can mould in the BA-way from day 1.

 

Edit: I can understand why they want to control the standard of training from the very earliest point.

 

I know that, but having made ONE, just ONE ground exam PPL does not exactly qualify for "impossible to train to our standards".. All you get, reading books and taking a ground exam, is knowledge. Thats why I find it so bizarre. What is wrong with just having knowledge without ever having been molded by an instructor?


Yngve Giljebrekke
ENZV NSB
 

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I'm not a real-world pilot, but two real-world instructors wrote this for FSX, with real-world student pilots in mind:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-Pilots-Training/dp/0764588222

 

The progression they take you through is like this:

 

Piper Cub - the basics: Sport Pilot License equivalent

Cessna 172 - radio navigation, GPS, weather: Private Pilot License Equivalent

Mooney Bravo - instrument flight in high-performance aircraft

Baron 58 - multi-engine flight

King Air - Introduction to turboprops

B737 - Introduction to airliners

 

While it uses the default FSX aircraft, payware equivalents could easily be substituted, e.g.

 

A2A Cub

A2A C172

RealAir Lancair/RealAir SF260/Carenado Bonanza (with Bernt Stolle patch)

RealAir Duke

RealAir Turbine Duke/Digital Aviation Cheyenne

PMDG 737

 

It's an approach that means once you move to the big stuff, you'll have done the right groundwork, even if there are more steps involved than might be the case in real life.


 

 

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I know two real world pilots (neither are interested in FS and constantly scoff me for my hobby!):-

 

Guy:

 

  • Done science A Levels then got straight into the BA Cadet program in 1998. (No PPL or previous training).
  • After training he was flying Saab 2000s for 2 years (BA's regional arm of the time), then moved to Dash 8-300s.
  • After 4 years on the TPs, he moved to the A320 programme out of Heathrow and 15 years later is still there. He has no desire to move to other types and likes the 'shorthaul lifestyle' as he now has kids.  He made left seat I think about 5 years ago, after a couple of attempts!

Martin:

 

  • Martin self funded and trained to his ATPL at Oxford Aviation Academy. He qualified in I think 2003.
  • He got into FlyBe, initially out of Birmingham I think, on the Q400.   He was there until 18 months ago when he went to EasyJet on A319/A320.   He has some 'left seat' assessments coming up early next year I believe.

 

Martin's Dad is also an ATP and came out of the RAF in the late 70s and flew for Dan Air out of Newcastle (727s I believe).  He then went to Thomas Cook / JMC for about 10 years, all on the A320, then in 2006 went to Qatar on the A330.         In 2010 he came back to the UK flying the 737 for another Charter airline (Thomson I think), and retired early last year.

 

As far as I can remember, Guy and Martin both flew PA28s to get up to the PPL and IR ratings and stuff and then I think one of them got up to his ATP in a Piper Seminole and the other in a DA-42 (can't remember which way around though!).

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Martin:

 

  • Martin self funded and trained to his ATPL at Oxford Aviation Academy. He qualified in I think 2003.
  • He got into FlyBe, initially out of Birmingham I think, on the Q400.   He was there until 18 months ago when he went to EasyJet on A319/A320.   He has some 'left seat' assessments coming up early next year I believe.

 

Yeah I know someone who did something very similar at about the same time. He went to BMI iirc and then to EJ on the A320 series. Still there and now in the LHS, though looking to reduce his hours I think.

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Ten different pilots will tell you ten different stories. From cadetships or instructing to hour building out bush or a Military career, as is often the case it is mostly being at the right place at right time when advancing ones aviation career.

 

It is a very unique fraternity. 

The path to the airlines is quite varied from country to country as well as the boom bust nature of aviation.

 

I'm more or a reader than a poster, but in my case here in Australia I took the bush pilot route to the airlines. Starting off in my home City. competing for the small crumbs of hours around my local field.

 

I trained initially on C-152/C-172, PA-28 Warrior then gained some experience on more complex Constant speed prop (Variable Pitch) and retractable undercarriage to gain my commercial licence on PA-28R Arrow and R-114 Aircraft (note the plural of aircraft is aircraft not Aircrafts!!! a small pet peeve of mine).

 

I then gained some multi-engine time for my Instrument rating on PA-44 Seminole and PN-68 Partenavia types. 

 

After being lucky enough to get some experience with an operator in my home town and luckily getting endorsed on some cool high performance piston twins I was occasionally flying PA-31 Chieftain and a B-58 Baron types.

 

I conceded though, that after a while of minimal flying, I really needed to build some hours.

 

I needed to head north. I gave up everything I knew and headed to Australia's Northern territory and jumped in the far queue with hundreds of other pilots in Darwin looking for a job. 

 

I ended up working in a bar up there for a few months, as a lot of pilots do.

 

I would say Tenacity and keenness was key here

I was able to pick up some work with a Parachute operator and did some meat bombing in C-182 for a time, before finally scoring  a much coveted charter job out bush in Arnhem land flying 2 of the territories most prolific flying utilities the Cessna C-206 and the C-210.

 

I flew those in an out of Aboriginal communities from very rough unprepared bush strips for 3 years and thousands of hours in tropical rain Mud and blisteringly hot dry seasons, before moving up to the twins, barons C-310's and PA-31's

 

I then ended up much later on Beech 1900D's and C's before moving to Perth WA after 7 years up north. Mining Charter in EMB-120 Brasilia's. then a left seat command back on the Beech 1900's

 

 After 4 or so years and yet more 1000's of hours I've finally been back in my home town flying  A-320's now for little over 4 years and yet many more hours, and soon hopefully moving the left seat again.

 

Bigger better faster a boss once said to me. my path took a little longer than most I guess, but it coincided with a bust cycle in Australian aviation due to ripple effects of 911 that had just taken place and one of our major airlines going tits up at the time.

 

I've had a lot fun doing it and met some pretty awesome guys doing it, I made some great mates as well, I scared the crap out of myself a few times too.

 

I don't regret any of it.

 

Cheers T

 

 

P.S have Look at OZx website, if your looking for some good bush scenery for FSX for that region.

it's a remarkably uncanny representation of the bush strips there and brings back a lot of memories and the occasional shiver. 

I wish they did more of the strips up there


FAA ATP, CASA ATPL(A), MEIR, NVFR, Type Rated: A320, B747,B737, E120, B1900D/C KA350,

Multi Ratings: PA31-350, BE58, C310, PN68, PA44, BE76.

Checked out on: C210, R114, C206, PA28, C172, C152.

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz (20 CPUs), ~3.3GHzMemory: 64MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti, Multi Monitor.
 

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Norwegian Air Force pilots go through the following craft:

 

SAAB Safari -> T-6 Texan II -> T-44 Pegasus -> P-3 Orion/C-130 Hercules

                                              -> T-38 Talon -> F-16 Fighting Falcon


Simmerhead - Making the virtual skies unsafe since 1987! 

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*snip*

 

Fascinating read, thank you mate. I'd love to start sim-flying somewhere other than the UK but I enforce a personal rule whereby I won't move out of the UK until I've collected all the OrbX UK scenery for the area and can competently hand fly IFR. If I were flying for real, I figure that'd be my situation. 

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Sounds like a fair plan. As far as I understand, apart from the cadetship route, most of the UK guys head off to north Africa to get their hours up,

 

The Congo, Botswana Etc...This IS the real "meat and potatoes" of flying.

 

Where. you learn real stick and rudder skills in poor weather and high temps resulting in Aircraft poor performance as well as short strips for good measure.

 

This is where you can get a deeper understanding of flying an aircraft to the edge of it's legal limits as safely as possible, with wild animals running out in front of you as well.

 

At least in Australia we only had to contend with Crocs, venomous snakes,spiders and the odd errant rogue buffalo.

 

I'm not sure how you'd go with downloadable scenery for fsx though.

 

In the meantime check this out UK bush pilots:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy9_pZrT1GA

 

I'm sure it will be enough to whet your appetite. Its very similar to how it was up in the Territory in OZ minus the Lions and elephants etcetera of course.

 

Cheers


FAA ATP, CASA ATPL(A), MEIR, NVFR, Type Rated: A320, B747,B737, E120, B1900D/C KA350,

Multi Ratings: PA31-350, BE58, C310, PN68, PA44, BE76.

Checked out on: C210, R114, C206, PA28, C172, C152.

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz (20 CPUs), ~3.3GHzMemory: 64MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti, Multi Monitor.
 

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Probably my only real regret in life was not taking up an offer to do bush flying in Africa in my mid twenties with an old school friend. Every month I would see pictures and emails of his adventures and tell myself I would join him. he moved onto the the ATR out there and now fly's the A330.

 

Not sure I would have wanted to go down the airliner route but a few years of bush flying definitely builds character!


Rob Prest

 

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Sounds like a fair plan. As far as I understand, apart from the cadetship route, most of the UK guys head off to north Africa to get their hours up, The Congo, Botswana Etc...This IS the real "meat and potatoes" of flying. Where. you learn real stick and rudder skills in poor weather and high temps resulting in Aircraft poor performance as well as short strips for good measure. This is where you can get a deeper understanding of flying an aircraft to the edge of it's legal limits as safely as possible, with wild animals running out in front of you as well. At least in Australia we only had to contend with Crocs, venomous snakes,spiders and the odd errant rogue buffalo. I'm not sure how you'd go with downloadable scenery for fsx though. In the meantime check this out UK bush pilots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy9_pZrT1GA I'm sure it will be enough to whet your appetite. Its very similar to how it was up in the Territory in OZ minus the Lions and elephants etcetera of course. Cheers

 

 

I have to say... this is one of the saddest things about FSX... it has the potential to do running animals doesn't it? at least static animals... you could use instant scenery maker to plop a few down here and there.. but still not the same really.. I wish there would be a utility to easily put down moving animals in an area that a user could define..  this is something that I was really looking forward to FSX when it first came out.. but.. so sad.. nothing ever gets developed along these lines..  bush flying in Africa without moving animals.. well kinda pointless isn't?  Could you do this with a mission maker program of some sort?


Ciao!

 

 

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I have to say... this is one of the saddest things about FSX... it has the potential to do running animals doesn't it? at least static animals... you could use instant scenery maker to plop a few down here and there.. but still not the same really.. I wish there would be a utility to easily put down moving animals in an area that a user could define..  this is something that I was really looking forward to FSX when it first came out.. but.. so sad.. nothing ever gets developed along these lines..  bush flying in Africa without moving animals.. well kinda pointless isn't?  Could you do this with a mission maker program of some sort?

 

I'm sure when OrbX get round to producing Africa scenery there'll be some "animalflow" objects in the scenery ;)

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