FS9

Wouldn't that be nice? Unfortunately, it will never really happen. The aftermarket will always (at least for the foreseeable future) take the basic out-of-the-box product and make it better. If MS hired the activesky guys, then the Activesky guys would be forced to operate under the thumb of MS's marketing dept. just like the current team is. They would have to deal with the time constraints and deadlines and limitations imposed by the bean counters. And a new group of Activesky guys would appear to make whatever the old guys did with MS that much better. MSFS is not designed solely for us "hardcore" flightsim guys. In fact, it isn't even designed mostly for us. To 90% or more of the people who buy the sim it is not only as real as it gets, but its way more real than they need it to be...

>>Why?I reckon it must be a rhetoretical question but in case it is not ...Because abything 'custom' is usually better than anything mass produced.FS9 is a mass product where *many* (not only the weather) features were treated haphazardly.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

>The point is that you have the Microsoft FS team, ALL most>competent as software designers. All most competent in>writing the complex code to put together such a wonderful>program that FS9 is. So with the accolades stated, why can>they not achieve in their WEATHER ENGINE coding, the SUPERIOR>programming (for the weather engine part of FS) that the>gentlemen behind AS2004.5 have achieved? >>Why?>Microft is an Operating Systems vender. FS9 is an Operating System for FightSims, and that's it. It is up to the applications vender to write the addons.

Each part of the sub-routine coding that makes the 'whole' of FS9 is written, then the product is released. What I am putting forth is that the level of quality and fore-thought-- be placed into any future version of MSFS--if others by releasing superior coding shows what the Microsoft engineers wrote was not the best application of coding for an element that is such a major element of the software.If someone invents a better mousetrap than the one you have offered for sale---adopt it! Look at it...and make its superior features 'your own'.... The Active Sky guys sure showed up the MSFS Team at their own 'game', to excuse the pun!The next release of a product should **at least render** equal to that quality of graphics that was shown to be there, via outside influences....namely, AS2004.5's weather interface.Cheers!Mitch R.

>>If someone invents a better mousetrap than the one you have>offered for sale---adopt it! It doesn't happen with mousetraps and it doesnt happen with flight simulators. Not to mention AS folks would probably be not interested in any 'licensing' deal. You have naive notion of marketing and product development.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Why does "out of the box" matter? Who here flies the sim with zero addons? -Great addons come out months and even years after fs2004. Building that functionality into the original sim means we wait that much longer for a new version.-Increased costs. Not everyone wants to pay additional costs for those features.-Why not leave the choice to the consumer? The 3rd party ability is actually a selling point of the program.

I am in marketing. I have been for 31 years. My company is successful because we give 110 percent to the selective consumer in our industry. We strive for the best that our collective synergies can provide. We do not have a monopoly, but have major market share nonetheless.'The best that one can produce upon the product's release to market!' This is succesful strategy.The sales that follows, is the test of trial by fire.I would expect the best, most feature-rich coding, that a collecttive mind could produce, for my money. Not merely a platform by which others later, could deliver at a premium add-on cost. I don't buy a car thinking I will meet my expectations ONCE I leave the car lot.Microsoft states, 'as real as it gets'....I merely suggest they market a product that meets the bold claim or retract it. I suggest they 'review' their 'gold edition' coding against what others have acheived, AFTER their 'best' is offered....and adopt the 'mark' in future versions. At least meet it!That is marketing. Never producing 'this will do, they'll buy it...'Many companies have faltered holding that viewpoint.Just my view....Mitch R.

When I saw this thread, which was a post almost verbatim of a known hoax:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=15787&page=....and now this thread, I have to wonder if you're more interested in stirring up the pot than posting thoughtful discussion. First of all, FS9 is the weather engine. AS 2004.5 is a good program, but one which piggybacks on the code in FS9. It doesn't add to the display engine of FS9--it does take what's there and manages it on the fly vs. a user attempting the same. It's an elegant effort, but worthless without the overhead the MSFS team put into FS9. As for the beauty AS displays, I've done the same by just setting the weather parameters on my own. I've been asked many times if my screenshots are made with Active Sky. And the answer is no--I just spend a few seconds with the weather settings and paint on the rich canvas--the beautiful weather engine--that FS9 provides.For the price, I think FS9 is as good as it gets out of the box. The MSFS team chose to leave some features for creative minds like the team behind AS to play with. I am glad that they did. Because not everyone wants to pay for the development costs of the "out of the box" FS9 and the added eye candy that AS offers. Some are content with spending $30 as well as not seeing "Real as it gers" twisted into some type of pro add-on, con Microsoft baloney...'nuff said-John

Mitch, I've got to say that you are reacting to a marketing slogun as thou its a contract.Are you trying to rationalize in your own mind the morals training you received growing up (thou shalt not lie) and the existance of advertising or "spin"? Its not a useful exercise. Doing that is best left to the stand up comedians, who make us chuckle with the irony of life, but to "really" take marketing sloguns literally must drive you a bit crazy. You know what "whiter than white" means in the detergent add? It means phosphers are deposited that emit in the infrared. So its not white at all....hmmmm...should we sue?Ivory soap is 99% pure. What the living heck does that mean? Well, it floats! LOL Non of these things mean more than "buy me". If advertising was forced to be literal, every type of soap would say "SOAP". No way to differentiate products that way. Not the best way to make money, sez madison ave. You must differentiate, you must brand.You know how many different brands of some consumer products are owned by the same company! The ultimate.....identical products competing based on the "feeling" transmitted by a name.Same with Flight simulator. "As Real as it Gets" is attractive, memorable, and it works....you remembered it! Marketing folks will tell you that a negative reaction to advertising is just about as effective as a positive reaction from a sales standpoint. The only way a slogun fails is if no one remembers it.Cmon, your post wasn't serious, was it? You didn't really think marketing sloguns were contracts? true? Best,Bob Bernstein

Not to mention that if MS ever did actually develop FS out of the box with planes like the Meridian and ATR and Spitfire, weather like AS2004, scenery like FS genesis et al, and all the other things we add on to it to make it the sim we all want it to be, it would most assuredly no longer be a $60 product. In fact, it'd likely be a several thousand dollar product marketed to training facilities and manufacturers...

Actually, I just pulled up the Official MSFS site. Nowhere can I find it say "as real sas it gets". It just says... "Microsoft Flight Simultor 2004 A Century of Flight".

Now THAT's funny...here we're not just discussing a marketing slogun, but perhaps an obsolete marketing slogun! Hee Hee .. show's what a memorable slogun it was, eh. We still consider it in force posthumously.Maybe its on the box?B

Hi Mitch,You keep posting your experiences!! Some have missed the whole point.Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/as2004proudsupporter.jpg

I think FS9 out of the box is a fantastic platform. But it is just that, a platform for folks to build on if they so choose. I think sometimes folks forget that the vast majority of FS buyers buy the product, load it on their respective computers, buy a $10.00 joystick and have a ball. I have no clue of the percentages, but I would imagine that we "hardcore simmers" are a small percentage of overall FS users. If you have been involved with FS since the first days as I have, I promise you that you would be amazed at the progress it has made. I use Active Sky also and love it, but FS9 provided the avenue for Active Sky to be as good as it is.