Let me just add this... Microsoft have done an unbelievable job of upgrading an inspired first program, Sublogic Flight Simulator, over 20 years and 8 major releases to today's absolutely stunning version, selling at approximately $60. Just like there is an aftermarket for cars, and aircraft, I might add... no product "out of the box" is everything it could be. But if it provides a solid platform with an open architecture, for a reasonable price, it is doing us all an immense favor! I'm sure that FS10, whenever it comes out will have some new features that will have us all applauding, while the add-on artists around the world will look for new things to add or just enhance. And we'll all realise that the $60 is just the beginning... and that, depending on our desire and wallet, we can add freeware and payware to make that flying experience even more compelling!! And then we can all post to the Avsim forum on our latest discoveries and our trials and tribulations in making it all work together without CTD's, stutters, and pauses! Pretty good hobby!

"You keep posting your experiences!! Some have missed the whole point.Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Support"Somehow I think the "ActiveSky Support" after your name represents "Conflict of Interest" :)I think someone could have made a post giving Active Sky deserved praise without taking shots at Microsoft. FS2004 "Out of the Box" is a product for the masses at a volume discount. FS2004+Active Sky, or FS2004+ATR72, or whatever add-on comes to mind is a product for the enthusiast who probably doesn't worry as much about budget or marketing slogans as long as the product is good.

Look on the back of the Tin Box....It says it there.

lolJim, I tend to take on folks that hide messages. Its true that Mitch used your product as illustration of his point, but that doesn't change his point, which is....if an advertising slogun is used, it best be literally correct.I understand your implication....that he never really cared if a slogun was literally correct or not.....that he never really thought Microsoft should hire you and your team........that perhaps all he was trying to do was to compliment your product.Perhaps, yet its the ultimate irony if that was indeed the case. pretending to rail against a company's words for not being literal, while the entire message was not to be taken literally. Quite a good one on the reader, eh? Kind of linguistic judo.:-))Bob

Makes sense, a slogun so memorable won't easily be dismissed. If it ain't broke.....B

Yes, you missed the point.OK there, no more conflict of interest.

Yes, you too missed the point. There is no hidden message just by those who want to create one.There, no conflict of interest here also!

yeah, the message was entirely clear to me all along...

Maybe you should spell out what "the point" is tnen? Is the post supposed to be "tongue in cheek"? Or some inside joke that only the "enlightened" should know? On the web, you take things at face value, and in the broader context with the content someone uses elsewhere in the forums. Threads like this aren't some "brain teaser" that we're supposed to react to in a certain way, in order to receive our bite of cheese...

Can I ask for this "hidden meaning" to be revealed? Kind of exciting!EDIT...OOOPS (sorry Jim), forgot that you insist there is NO hidden meaning. Ok...then how can I phrase this....how bout revealing the NOT hidden meaning, that simply is avoiding me...not hidden from me per se...but just teasing me by not being available for my brain.I will say, its been an interesting thread...and your posts doubled my interest. To think...hidden meaning all along, while at the same time, NOT being hidden! Delicious. And don't forget, THIS post might have hidden meaning also! LOL OOOPS there I go again....ok, this post might have a NOT hidden meaning, that is simply teasing you by not being visible!:-)Bob

Right on.

>Why does "out of the box" matter? Who here flies the sim>with zero addons? >>-Great addons come out months and even years after fs2004. >Building that functionality into the original sim means we>wait that much longer for a new version.>Great PC software also come out much later than the OS>-Increased costs. Not everyone wants to pay additional costs>for those features.>True. Not everyone use MS Word, they use what's out of Windows - Notepad.>-Why not leave the choice to the consumer? The 3rd party>ability is actually a selling point of the program.>>Don't see what your point here. I thought we already have the choice.

LOL Bob!If you know what I mean!http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/Eyes.gif http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/Eyes.gif

Hmmm, I don

I honestly think many people slam MS because they didn't give us default planes like the PMDG 737.No offense to PMDG (at all! I love their stuff), but the hours spent writing a platform like MSFS are thousands and thousands of hours more than any add-on writer puts into a product. They probably spend every last minute, up until release, working on that. The add-on writers have it easy- they build a plane in GMAX (MS wrote the converter), and punch in some numbers in a file for the flight model (MS already did the physics engine), write a few files in XML and a couple of .dlls are they're done. I'm not saying this is easy, but compared to MS writing the physics code, joystick code, graphics engine and particle effects, the sound engine, the ATC engine, the entire UI, plug-in support, and making it work on many, many different machines is ridiculously hard. I'm thankful for what we have, and that MS at least built something with an open architecure, so we can have products like Active Sky (which I love). Imagine they said stuff it- and just wrote the product for the 99% of people who buy it- the casual armchair pilots. They gave alot of consideration to the aftermarket crowd, and will certainly continue to do so. They are pilots, and love their product (watch the interview with them).Look at FS9's support for add-ons compared to previous versions- If they hadn't released SDKs and converters, it would've taken the entire time since it's release for the hackers to unravel the rather complexities of the file formats (like back in early versions, when people SOLD AFTERMARKET PROGRAMS JUST TO CREATE SCENERY). Now they give us the tools, and the platform, so people like PMDG and Active Sky can "take them and run".It's the only civvie flight sim left, and it's made by a company that doesn't exactly fawn over it's end users. It has probably been an uphill battle for all those on the inside that love FS as much as we do, and it's because of them, and the FS team that we at least have this. Look at it this way- the Train Sim guys lost- so what do they have to look forward to?