Using electronic recording devices during takeoff and landing

[PoanickyBoad 3]

I've been on a few flights with Air New Zealand recently and am becoming interested in making recordings as well as taking photos during the flight. The annoying thing is that the crew seem to prohibit the use of any electronic devices during takeoff and landing (i.e. the parts of the flight most probable to be scenic) so I co-operate and turn my recording device (a Galaxy S3 in airplane mode) right off when the call is made. Going onto sites like Youtube and Airliners.net however reveals a plethora of photos and (in the case of Youtube) even full-flight video recordings. Do these rules differ in other countries or are the people taking these photos/videos just being sneaky with a hand-embedded camera or something?? 

 

If there are any people here who like to take videos/photos during flights I'd be interested to hear how this is overcome. I really don't want to break the rules as I imagine they are there for a reason.

[FLEX1978 373]

Don't want to encourage people to break the rules... Just saying the wings not going to drop off if you decide to record

 

Only reason I frown upon it is the fact that you have potential loose object that can fly out of your hand in the case of a rejected take off or rough landing.

[Tabs 2,790]

The law was just changed in the US last month. I've filmed several takeoffs and landings since on US airlines with no issue at all. The rest of the world will probably follow the FAA's lead on this but it may not happen quickly unfortunately.

[KevinAu 441]

Most of those videos, at least the ones taken from seats aboard US carriers are from people being sneaky. The wings aren't going to fall off, but you can potentially interfere with the avionics. If the ILS signal is interfered with, you can take the plane off course on a low visibility landing approach and potentally hit an obstacle, in which case the wings will fall off.

 

Asides from that you are putting the flight attendant in the position of either having to enforce a rule on you or ignore it and put herself and you at risk of punishment if there is an FAA inspector ghost riding in the back who notices.

 

Anyways this is all mostly moot now since the FAA recently caved in to pressure to relax these rules. Each airline and aircraft type still has to be approved individually for this so there are still flights that go out under the old rules of everything having to be off. However, even under the new rules, during low visibility operations such as cat 2/3 landings, you will still be required to turn devices off.

[altstiff 71]

I have been filming and shooting for years from my seat. Never had to do it "sneaky".

 

Only once I had a F/A tell me not to have the strap around my neck (similar to what Rob Said).

 

But have never been told I couldn't film or shoot photo's. In fact many flight crews do it. Just look at YouTube...

[KevinAu 441]

Like I said, you're just putting them in a position to have to choose to 'let it go' or not. Crews from countries other than the US may not have as restrictive rules, so they may be free do things like shoot personal videos while the plane is landing. Or it may not occur to them that the entire world sees whatever they put on youtube. Which is something that happened to a crew back at my old airline recently, and got fired for the picture they sent to the chive.

[jetsflier 87]

I know that on an Air Canada flight I took recently the FA had no issue with it. She was sitting adjacent to us for landing and so I thought I should ask and she said to go right ahead. It was on my phone too, and before the law changed to allow electronic devices in flight.

[FloG 148]

Excuse my ignorance, but how could electronic devices possibly interfere with avionics etc? I mean they work on different freq bands, and all airlines I have flown with in the past years had no problem wiht using such stuff during cruise - it's just porhibited as long as the seat belt sings are on. So why would interferences be a problem at lower altitudes, but not at higher ones? Is there any concrete evidence of such interferences or is that just an assumption dating back to the beginning of mobile phones?

 

Please don't take this as an offense or anything it's just something I never could understand, although I have heard a few other (some very good and clear) reasons why electronic device should not be used during take-off and landing.

[FLEX1978 373]

bedtime reading http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20050232846_2005233838.pdf

 

I only glanced through a few pages. Take off and landing is a critical phase of flight, we all know a few people leave the phone on, I've even done it myself many times. I guess the question is what would happen if 300 people are making phone calls during a CATIII approach? I don't want to be onboard to find out

 

 

Something to note from the summary of that article

 

"Existing certification and modelling tools are not adequate"

[KevinAu 441]

Excuse my ignorance, but how could electronic devices possibly interfere with avionics etc? I mean they work on different freq bands, and all airlines I have flown with in the past years had no problem wiht using such stuff during cruise - it's just porhibited as long as the seat belt sings are on. So why would interferences be a problem at lower altitudes, but not at higher ones? Is there any concrete evidence of such interferences or is that just an assumption dating back to the beginning of mobile phones?

 

Please don't take this as an offense or anything it's just something I never could understand, although I have heard a few other (some very good and clear) reasons why electronic device should not be used during take-off and landing.

The FAA assumes that they interfere because they have not been tested to prove they don't. It is impossibly expensive to test all the different models of phones and electronic devices to prove conclusively that there is no risk of interference with reception of navaids. I know that cellphones can cause interference with communications since they cause a distinct noise in the headsets if they are on.

 

The reason it has been acceptable above 10,000' for their usage is that you are no longer near the ground. If they cause the plane to go off course, you won't be in as much risk of hitting a tower.

 

As for how they can interfere with the avionics, I'm not an EE but my understanding is that all electronic devices emit rf energy just by being turned on, and if they are not shielded adequately, rf transmissions of unknown strength and frequency will be transmitted, possibly causing inaccurate indications with the nav systems. You don't want to be on an airplane doing an ILS to minimums when the signal starts telling the pilots to go low inappropriately. It may get rather painful for all on board.

[FloG 148]

Thanks for the explanation, Rob and Kevin. Sounds reasonable to me now.

[mgh 89]

The original thinking was that Portable Electronic Devices (PEDs) emit electro-magnetic radiation which might interfere with aircraft systems. They were banned on the "precautionary principle."  Recent research has shown that most commercial airplanes can tolerate radio interference signals from PEDs.

 

Individual airlines will have to assess if their aircraft can tolerate radio interference from PEDs  before they will be permitted. They will have to  evaluate avionics as well as changes to stowage rules and passenger announcements. Each airline will also need to revise manuals, checklists for crew member training materials, carry-on baggage programs and passenger briefings before expanding use of PEDs. Each airline will determine how and when they will allow passengers broader use of PEDs so it isn't an overall permission. 

 

Cell-phones are not affected because  they are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Communications Commission, not the FAA .

 

Photography and filming are different matters. Airliners are private property and airlines can make any rules they chose , taking into account privacy and other passenger concerns.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I've been on a few flights with Air New Zealand recently and am becoming interested in making recordings as well as taking photos during the flight. The annoying thing is that the crew seem to prohibit the use of any electronic devices during takeoff and landing (i.e. the parts of the flight most probable to be scenic) so I co-operate and turn my recording device (a Galaxy S3 in airplane mode) right off when the call is made. Going onto sites like Youtube and Airliners.net however reveals a plethora of photos and (in the case of Youtube) even full-flight video recordings. Do these rules differ in other countries or are the people taking these photos/videos just being sneaky with a hand-embedded camera or something?? 

 

If there are any people here who like to take videos/photos during flights I'd be interested to hear how this is overcome. I really don't want to break the rules as I imagine they are there for a reason.

I use a Sony Camera and not a cell phone and they never bother me about it....here is my evidence of that:

 

 

 

Not sure what they can do about it but they never do anything to me. New Zealand is one of the most laid back places on the planet where the police don't carry guns and remind the criminals to 'blow on your pie' before they eat it so they don't burn their tongues, so I wouldn't worry about anything happening because you filmed a landing or takeoff, but maybe use a camera instead of a cell phone is all....Cheers

[mgh 89]

The rules were introduced because of safety concerns. Why should anyone want to break them just to take pictures for their own amusement?

[WingZ 547]

ytz is only telling half the story... here's what happened to the rest of the landing he electronically disturbed with his Sony  :ph34r: :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku8Ip9dU2CM#t=5