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PoanickyBoad

Using electronic recording devices during takeoff and landing

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ytz is only telling half the story... here's what happened to the rest of the landing he electronically disturbed with his Sony  :ph34r: :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku8Ip9dU2CM#t=5

 

I always thought that was a great video. That one was done by the book. Too bad that happens quite a lot with those Dash 8's as they are a great aircraft other then the landing gear. Reason why I was filming mine was to make sure it was safe.  :lol:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash_8_landing_gear_incidents

 

 

The rules were introduced because of safety concerns. Why should anyone want to break them just to take pictures for their own amusement?

 

Those rules are in place to protect the airline from litigation for when something does go wrong. The time when things are more likely to go wrong is during landing and take-off and the airlines don't want that in film. Not every airline has this rule.

 

Most likely Air New Zealand doesn't allow it is because they fly regularly into Wellington and Queenstown airports that are considered high risk. Landing at Wellington is like a roller-coaster ride and looks bad on Air New Zealand PR when you post scary videos like that on YouTube when people actually do throw-up quite a lot flying into Wellington. It is a unique place in the world.

 


Matthew Kane

 

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Those rules are in place to protect the airline from litigation for when something does go wrong. The time when things are more likely to go wrong is during landing and take-off and the airlines don't want that in film.

 

The rules about PEDs imposed by the regulatory authorities to ensure safety of passengers, not by the airlines.

 

 

A camera isn't going to interfere with aviation equipment

 

You know what electro-magnetic radiation your camera emits? I don't know what mine does.

 

My question remains - Why should anyone want to break them just to take pictures for their own amusement?

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You know what electro-magnetic radiation your camera emits? I don't know what mine does.

 

Even if I was using a Mechanical camera with no electronics at all that would be against the rule. It is the filming that they don't want during landing and takeoff regardless of what you are using to film.

 

 

 

My question remains - Why should anyone want to break them just to take pictures for their own amusement?

 

Because everything in life is a risk assessment and I have a freedom of choice. I used to be a freestyle skier doing backflips on skis, jump out of an airplane, climb a mountain, surf in the ocean, break the speed limit on my motorcycle up a mountain pass....live my life to the fullest. New Zealand is the best place on the planet to live so I have no problem filming a landing into Wellington or Queenstown Airport. 

 

Better to live a short life to the fullest then a long life full of regret.......If you don't understand that then I guess you are the type of person that has never broke a speed limit.


Matthew Kane

 

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To answer the OP:

NZ has a no-fault personal accident compensation payout funded by the state. 

However, owners and operators of whatever description are obliged to inform people of potential risk.

Once they've done that, you are free to do any damn stupid thing you like!

(and see post above...  :lol:  )

 

So, thank the crew for informing you, wait until they have moved on, then shoot away.

Especially in flightmode, your camera really does not pose any threat to air safety whatsoever.

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Because everything in life is a risk assessment and I have a freedom of choice.

You don't have a freedom of choice to override industry risk assessments and endanger others.

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Because everything in life is a risk assessment and I have a freedom of choice. I used to be a freestyle skier doing backflips on skis, jump out of an airplane, climb a mountain, surf in the ocean, break the speed limit on my motorcycle up a mountain pass....live my life to the fullest. New Zealand is the best place on the planet to live so I have no problem filming a landing into Wellington or Queenstown Airport.

 

Better to live a short life to the fullest then a long life full of regret.......If you don't understand that then I guess you are the type of person that has never broke a speed limit.

The only person that gets hurt when you do backflips is yourself. And that is perfectly fine to break rules and take risks with your own life. However, I do not believe that it is ok to break rules and put the lives of others at risk for your own pleasure.

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You don't have a freedom of choice to override industry risk assessments and endanger others.

 

Howard, you missed the point of this thread from the beginning. We are talking about Air New Zealand here, The reason for the rule is not because of what you describing as a risk to the aircraft from electromagnets from a camera, Air New Zealand has this rule for a different reason and that is they don't want people to film landings and takeoff.

 

Air Canada for example does allow people to film during landings and take off as do many other airlines and tell the passengers to do so, so it is nothing to do with a Camera risking the aircraft. As I already said the reason why Air New Zealand has this policy compared to other airlines is most likely that they land in some of the harshest conditions compared to other regions on the earth, and it is very common to see people vomiting while landing in New Zealand (I have seen that happen), they don't want bouncy windy landings to be filmed from inside the aircraft which are common here.

 

This isn't an FAA thing as FAA is in the United States and not New Zealand. We have rules here and we also have the choice to break those rules. I don't see why a guy that lives in England is so concerned about what we do in New Zealand in the first place.

 

 

To answer the OP:

NZ has a no-fault personal accident compensation payout funded by the state. 

However, owners and operators of whatever description are obliged to inform people of potential risk.

Once they've done that, you are free to do any damn stupid thing you like!

(and see post above...  :lol:  )

 

So, thank the crew for informing you, wait until they have moved on, then shoot away.

Especially in flightmode, your camera really does not pose any threat to air safety whatsoever.

WingZ pretty much describes the situation the best

 

 

The only person that gets hurt when you do backflips is yourself. And that is perfectly fine to break rules and take risks with your own life. However, I do not believe that it is ok to break rules and put the lives of others at risk for your own pleasure.

Show me where this is true, and if it is true why do other airlines allow it and not Air New Zealand. Also why are there thousands of videos on YouTube filmed by pilots from the flight deck???? Like I said above even if your camera was mechanical with no electronic parts they (ANZ) don't want you filming (but don't really enforce it). If your electromagnetic argument was true then shame on all those pilots for filming their landings and posting them in YouTube  :O

 

And if it was seriously that much of a risk then camera's would not be allowed on the aircraft in the first place, just like Box Cutters 

 

I don't think all those passengers realize what a risk this crew is doing to them, oh the horror   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Matthew Kane

 

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Matthew, we are discussing electronic devices. Whether or not any particular airline allows filming or not is an entirely different policy which is irrelevant to this discussion about electronic devices. If the filming device is an electronic device, then it cannot be operated when electronic devices are disallowed, regardless of their policy on filming.

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Matthew, we are discussing electronic devices. Whether or not any particular airline allows filming or not is an entirely different policy which is irrelevant to this discussion about electronic devices. If the filming device is an electronic device, then it cannot be operated when electronic devices are disallowed, regardless of their policy on filming.

We are talking about a guy in New Zealand that has a particular interest in filming take-off and landings on Air New Zealand flights,...go back and read the original post once again. He wasn't talking about any other country or airline. He wants to film landings and take-offs in New Zealand and is wondering why you can't when you can in other regions.

 

Yes Air New Zealand doesn't allow it where other airlines do. I pointed out that I break that rule many many times on Air New Zealand flights and 9 times out of 10 they don't tell me to stop when they see me doing it. On one occasion ever the flight attendant asked me to stop and all I did was lower my camera and when she moved on proceeded to film again....I never paused it.

 

What you guys want to make of that is entirely up to you. I find it laughable that you think an airliner is going to crash because a camera is filming when there are literally thousands of videos on YouTube showing what we are talking about and no one can show me any documented cases of where a camera has caused an airliner to have any incident due to electromagnetic activity. I don't use a mobile to film, I have used a Sony DSC Camera, and if anyone thinks that that Camera will bring down an airliner or is unsafe then I don't believe that for a second.

 

As the original post said many other countries and airlines allow it, Why ANZ doesn't is up to ANZ and I don't think it is because of electromagnetic activity.,.,,,I think it is more likely because of the many bouncy landings and take-offs due to our high winds. But that is my theory on it....Cheers

 

EDIT:

 

Here are our top 5 winds of yesterday, these winds are very normal in New Zealand and very much a risk to flight safety. Better to stow your laptop, phone, camera etc when flying into these surface winds:

 

1 Kelburn, Wellington 113 km/h

2 Wellington Airport 83 km/h

3 Mana Island 80 km/h

4 Kaikoura 76 km/h

5 Blenheim Airport 70 km/h

Rank of the locations with the highest wind gust recorded yesterday, in order from the highest to less


Matthew Kane

 

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Given how painful (in the ear) it became after our local providers added cell towers so we ppl could talk when passing through underground tunnels, I am more concerned about shouting idiots on the plane. I can barely take it when I am on the train, but atleast I can walk away to the next compartment...being stuck on the seat in the plane with a seat belt and nowhere togo, as the guy/gal next to me tries to explain to his/her significant other they are delayed as the plane enters a hold...oh the misery...it's a safety hazard fo sho :LMAO: .


Charan Kumar
FSX/XPX vPilot
VATSIM ZOA and Oceanic Controller (Pacific)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead

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We are talking about a guy in New Zealand that has a particular interest in filming take-off and landings on Air New Zealand flights,...go back and read the original post once again. He wasn't talking about any other country or airline. He wants to film landings and take-offs in New Zealand and is wondering why you can't when you can in other regions.

 

Yes Air New Zealand doesn't allow it where other airlines do. I pointed out that I break that rule many many times on Air New Zealand flights and 9 times out of 10 they don't tell me to stop when they see me doing it. On one occasion ever the flight attendant asked me to stop and all I did was lower my camera and when she moved on proceeded to film again....I never paused it.

 

What you guys want to make of that is entirely up to you. I find it laughable that you think an airliner is going to crash because a camera is filming when there are literally thousands of videos on YouTube showing what we are talking about and no one can show me any documented cases of where a camera has caused an airliner to have any incident due to electromagnetic activity. I don't use a mobile to film, I have used a Sony DSC Camera, and if anyone thinks that that Camera will bring down an airliner or is unsafe then I don't believe that for a second.

 

As the original post said many other countries and airlines allow it, Why ANZ doesn't is up to ANZ and I don't think it is because of electromagnetic activity.,.,,,I think it is more likely because of the many bouncy landings and take-offs due to our high winds. But that is my theory on it....Cheers

 

EDIT:

 

Here are our top 5 winds of yesterday, these winds are very normal in New Zealand and very much a risk to flight safety. Better to stow your laptop, phone, camera etc when flying into these surface winds:

 

1 Kelburn, Wellington 113 km/h

2 Wellington Airport 83 km/h

3 Mana Island 80 km/h

4 Kaikoura 76 km/h

5 Blenheim Airport 70 km/h

Rank of the locations with the highest wind gust recorded yesterday, in order from the highest to less

The original poster's question was how were people getting takeoff and landing videos if electronic devices are prohibited? The title of the thread also refererences electronic devices, not filming. Go reread the first post and thread title yourself, Matthew.

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Read my original post again too.

 

Made the difference between using PED's (which can affect safety) and taking pictures (which is a matter of policy for individual airlines) perfectly clear.

 

As KevinAu said using a camera with electronics make it a PED.

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On Jetstar... The saftey card for A320 prohibits "all electronic devices." but the A321 card prohibits "all electronic devices except personal cameras and video recorders but all phones must be switched off." The 787 just had pictures but showed phones and ipods with earphones as 'bad' and a camcorder and SLR as 'ok'

 

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The original poster's question was how were people getting takeoff and landing videos if electronic devices are prohibited?

 

Yes because as he says he is in New Zealand and would like to on Air New Zealand, for that he was perfectly clear. 

 

As he said:

 

 

 

I've been on a few flights with Air New Zealand recently and am becoming interested in making recordings as well as taking photos during the flight. The annoying thing is that the crew seem to prohibit the use of any electronic devices during takeoff and landing

 

He is not talking about the USA or the FAA regulations or anything like that as you went on about. He just wanted to film the landing and take-off on Air New Zealand flights and was wondering how to get around that.....were a few Kiwi's suggested to just do it

 

Makes me glad to live in New Zealand where we don't give a toss about the FAA or overbearing regulations, we have our own set of rules that is nothing to do with the FAA. Like I said nothing would happen if you did film anyways and that was backed up by another Kiwi. Were not over regulated America where we arrest people for frivolous things,

 

You guys read into this as you want but neither of you live here so this doesn't effect you....it is a guy visiting our nation and just wanted to film it for himself and I don't see any harm in that as I do what he wanted to do all the time, in fact I take it as a compliment he wanted to capture the beauty of this nation and hope he has a great time here as most people do.

 

When he visits your nations then feel free to come down on him hard for breaking your frivolous rules if you so desire. 


Matthew Kane

 

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"The Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand (CAA) is not relaxing the existing rules about use

of electronic devices while in flight, but will closely watch the expected announcement by

the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) later this week."

 

http://www.caa.govt.nz/public_and_media_info/caa_releases/Electronic_devices.pdf

 

That document goes on to state New Zealand law on the subject which is Primary Rule CAR 91.7 (updated 2002)

 

This bans using PEDs designed to transmit electromagnetic energy during IFR flight.

 

It also bans using other PEDs during instrument  approach or departure procedures.  Certain types of PED exempted from this ban, but the list of exemptions does not include cameras. 

 

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