Lets hear it from those hands on Pilots!

[theflyingdutchmen 3]

In the sim i had done the hand thing just before and after the TD alot of times . in RW now that im trying to move up from the (UPS)757s i had to face a few flights were i had take over just after the TD all the way down to the tarmac ......

 

I agree and see that your SOPs call for AP on certain approaches, but when given a visual approach or even in light IMC conditions ,is it up to pilot discretion to fly with or without AP? 

 

BTW as a young pilot myself, very jealous, what are you planning to move up to?. I just got hired at a company working ground then to the flight line within a year. Metro III here i come!

 

All the best,

Duco

[hoser70 40]

I'll use the tools I have while flying on any ATC network being I'm the only pilot in the plane. So no, I will not hand fly it from TOD ever on VATSIM. I do hand fly the approach and normally up to about 10,000 feet on departure.

[CrewF16 26]

 

 

AP is good if pilots use it in the right way, SOP and so on.  The trouble begins when pilots mix different disciplines up

You still have to watch what the aircraft is doing even if AP is on.

 

If you are in thick fog IMC conditions you have to fly a CAT 3 down to minimums. This is done with both APs.  Assuming the airport has this equipment. If not you would have to do a non precision approach using VORs. 

 

Ron are you saying that you like to monitor the instruments, but not necessarily  use the AP? Is this done with no visual cues from outside?   I  see where you are going from and so on, with situational awareness, providing you have your instruments?

 

There are couple of good Air Crash Investigations.  Which look at AP use, and pilots freezing at the controls etc. You probably seen these, but always good to watch again.

 

 

 

Julian: I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not implying that the AP should not be used. It is a necessary and valuable tool in todays world. All I am saying is that I think too many pilots do not do enough hands on flying to be valuable is a crisis situation. Ask a 40 year old to do a simple math problem with fractions. I guarantee there will be issues do to the fact that he or she uses a computer all of the time.

 

Thanks,

Ron

[joolsd 10]

 

 

AP is good if pilots use it in the right way, SOP and so on.  The trouble begins when pilots mix different disciplines up

You still have to watch what the aircraft is doing even if AP is on.

 

If you are in thick fog IMC conditions you have to fly a CAT 3 down to minimums. This is done with both APs.  Assuming the airport has this equipment. If not you would have to do a non precision approach using VORs. 

 

Ron are you saying that you like to monitor the instruments, but not necessarily  use the AP? Is this done with no visual cues from outside?   I  see where you are going from and so on, with situational awareness, providing you have your instruments?

 

There are couple of good Air Crash Investigations.  Which look at AP use, and pilots freezing at the controls etc. You probably seen these, but always good to watch again.

 

 

 

Julian: I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not implying that the AP should not be used. It is a necessary and valuable tool in todays world. All I am saying is that I think too many pilots do not do enough hands on flying to be valuable is a crisis situation. Ask a 40 year old to do a simple math problem with fractions. I guarantee there will be issues do to the fact that he or she uses a computer all of the time.

 

Thanks,

Ron

 

Sure I understand,  that is what the PPL,VFR flight is for. Basic flying skills to fly rather than pushing knobs.  Sometimes  I do feel the need to get some flying in, so I do circuits, in a Piper. The joy being, that you get to experience as many take offs and landings as possible in a short space of time.

 

My only concern was that if you hand fly all the time in a high fidelity add-on like the 777, (I haven't even got it yet)... you would be wasting a good add on hand flying.  I am not implying that you meant this, just how I interpreted it. So My bad.   I do hand fly the NGX 737, but only at the most critical stage of flight, and always do this when ever possible. It is a bit boring doing auto lands all the time.

 

With Air France. If the pitot heat tube, froze like it did in that video, and I lost by airspeed, maybe I would be forced to hand fly. At FL350.  Easier said than done. No moon, just black and water. Although maybe he did have the FD on, pointing up, so why he didn't dip the nose we will never know. A bit of confusion over the alert sounding like a over speed warning , when it was a stall warning.

[FlexibleFlier 4]

I think it has to do with why you are in FSX: are you trying to learn piloting skills or play a game. There is no right or wrong here, only an understanding of your desired outcome.

 

If you are playing a game, then certainly using all the electronic "goodies" is great fun, and gives you the chance to move outside the airplane, check out the scenery and do some fun, even crazy, things.

 

If you are trying to learn piloting skills, it's a different matter. Before turning on all the electronics, it is crucial to learn how to fly an airplane: hands on, stick and rudder, basic understanding of how the machine works and what the instruments are telling you. As was said above, even when on autopilot, it is your responsibility as Pilot in Command to keep the airplane operation safe.

 

The suggestion to start with the Cessna 172 trainer is right on target in either case. You will learn more and become much more facile with the equipment if you use the building block approach: start small, adding skills and tools incrementally. Whether you are trying to become a pilot or a gamer you will do better and achieve your goal more quickly.

 

Happy Flying / Gaming!

[FLEX1978 373]

Well if you are looking to brush up your hand flying skill then FSX isn't going to do much Hire a Cessna for an hour.

 

These sims don't fly like the real thing, especially with a plastic yoke in your hand. best to look at these sims as systems trainers, how to become a master in the art of button pushing

[Kyle Schurb 89]

Well if you are looking to brush up your hand flying skill then FSX isn't going to do much Hire a Cessna for an hour.

 

These sims don't fly like the real thing, especially with a plastic yoke in your hand. best to look at these sims as systems trainers, how to become a master in the art of button pushing

 

I agree, although FS is very useful for practice with scanning/interpreting flight instruments.

[joolsd 10]

Well if you are looking to brush up your hand flying skill then FSX isn't going to do much Hire a Cessna for an hour.

 

These sims don't fly like the real thing, especially with a plastic yoke in your hand. best to look at these sims as systems trainers, how to become a master in the art of button pushing

 

 

That probably says it all.  FSX is  a restrictive environment. Of the few flying lessons I have had it is nothing like FSX. 

[FLEX1978 373]

I agree, although FS is very useful for practice with scanning/interpreting flight instruments.

Yes, very good if you are being taught the correct way to scan. It can also be detrimental for those just starting out on a PPL with thousands of hours of FSX time, too much focus on the instruments and not enough outside the window or through feel.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

It can also be detrimental for those just starting out on a PPL with thousands of hours of FSX time, too much focus on the instruments and not enough outside the window or through feel.

 

That's for sure.  My instructor used to flick me on the shoulder all the time.

 

*flick* "Eyes out!"

*pause*

*flick* "Eyes out!"

 

 

 

 

...*flick* "Eyes out!  Your gauges are the horizon and your [rear]."

 

Learning that seat of the pants and visual picture has saved aforementioned [rear] a few times; most notably when my gauge lighting failed on a night flight back into JYO and my flashlight wasn't quickly accessible.

[farnetti 0]

Spoke to a real world pilot this year as I had the same question. He said he would normally turn off the autopilot at around 1500ft above ground, depending on conditions, to get a feel for the aircraft and conditions before touchdown.

[CrewF16 26]

I started this topic really wondering about flying in the sim. It may have got off topic because I do have a passion for what is going on in the RW with all of the Automation and not enough of the seat of the pants flying. When I got my PPL they switched instructors about half way through. My second instructor was a retired C-141 Captain and man could I tell the difference. He could flip that Tomahawk around on his thumb. Spin training with him was a whole new experience. I just think there should be something in the regs (weather permitting) saying that there should be a certain amount of hands on per month.

 

Thanks,

Ron

[hmsdreadnought 12]

My enjoyment of hand flying is directly related to the quality of the flight model and the quality of my controls.  For instance, the Real Air Duke V2 is a pleasure to fly.  Follow the flight manual, get your engine settings, speeds and attitude right, and the plane will trim out very nicely - requiring only very minimal inputs to keep it going where its supposed to.

 

It helps too to have good controls.  I have a PFC yoke which is very solid and well balanced.  That helps make banking smooth and precise.

 

I get bored flying on AP, so only use it for cruise.  For me, I'm not that interested in just pressing buttons even though that's how a lot of airlines fly their planes. 

[CrewF16 26]

My enjoyment of hand flying is directly related to the quality of the flight model and the quality of my controls. For instance, the Real Air Duke V2 is a pleasure to fly. Follow the flight manual, get your engine settings, speeds and attitude right, and the plane will trim out very nicely - requiring only very minimal inputs to keep it going where its supposed to.

It helps too to have good controls. I have a PFC yoke which is very solid and well balanced. That helps make banking smooth and precise.

I get bored flying on AP, so only use it for cruise. For me, I'm not that interested in just pressing buttons even though that's how a lot of airlines fly their planes.

I completely agree. I will not fly default AC anymore. I have thought about getting the Real Air Duke but I usually fly PMDG or Carenado. I have Saitek Yoke, Throttle, and Pedals, and they work great. (Please don't forget to sign your post)

 

Thanks,

Ron