Realistic Zoom Setting?

[mganz121 159]

I've seen both these videos before but this thread got me interested in pulling out my calculator and actually running the numbers. I normally use a 40" HDTV monitor (19.5" high) with a zoom setting of 0.80 and a viewing distance of about 40". (I've set the same zoom in all the views so the 'size' of the world is consistent no mater what view I'm using). When I plugged in the numbers I was sure surprised that find that for my viewing distance, the correct zoom setting is 1.25. By moving the monitor 7.5" closer to my eyes (moving it close to the front of my desk) I was able to position it for a correct zoom of 1.0 (according to the formula).

 

Well I went in with an open mind and tried it... and I have to admit that, although the VC seems strange with so little of the instrument panel 'on screen' without looking around, the distances, sizes and motion does seem more natural than my previous 'optimal' configuration. I could get used to this. :rolleyes:

I have emphasised the important part of your comments. Yes you will get used to it and by clever use of your yoke or joystick hat-switch, I think you will get a much realistic experience from your simulator.

 

Consider this. If you were fortunate enough to be able to jump into the real aircraft, I think you would surprised at how close to the windshield you really are and the amount of head / eye movement that is required to scan the instruments .

 

When we are looking at a monitor or HD TV (in my case a 42"), that point of reference is still very small in comparison to the real world. The only thing that can offset that is the use of the hat-switch to mimic the  head / eye movement that is required to scan the instruments as in real life. 

 

 

 

Is there anyone who thinks the CORRECT zoom would be the same on an 8' TV screen as on a 19" monitor?  Or that your 27" monitor sitting 18" from your face would have the same CORRECT zoom as the same monitor sitting 35" away? 

 

I will (confidently) go out on a limb here and suggest that the same zoom applies to all points of reference because it is only the point of reference that has changed in size (in this case the size of your monitor). Consider these extremes. To be able to see an instrument clearly on an 8" TV, one would have to zoom in perhaps 8X just to see a couple of the instruments. At the other end of the extreme, on a 100" screen you could quite happily zoom out below 1X zoom in order to see all of the instruments clearly. Neither of these scenarios would be correct because that is not what the pilot sees in real life. A pilot does not see all the instruments at the same time and the only way they can see the instruments is with a combination of moving their head and eyes. Just like us car drivers. Do we see all of our car dashboard without moving our head and eyes? No we don't. So in summary I guess what I am trying to say here, the true zoom (1x) is consistent across all screen sizes. Whether we can see what is put onto our point of reference though (being either smaller or larger than real life) is another matter.

 

 

The ONLY thing anyone can say for certain is that "X.XX zoom is correct for my purposes."  This means that "0.3 is correct for me" is a true statement.

 

Set the zoom anywhere you want.  If you're happy, then it's the correct zoom.  If you change the zoom at a later date, this will also be the correct zoom.

 

 

And your comment is partially correct. If 0.3 is correct for you, then yes, it is a true statement. But it is not true to real life and what we see on the flightdeck or cockpit. I think you will find that is why any training school will use a zoom factor of 1.0

 

Great subject isn't it?

[LHookins 3,102]

 

 

So in summary I guess what I am trying to say here, the true zoom (1x) is consistent across all screen sizes.

 

Imagine sitting 3 feet from an 8 foot screen. 

 

Hook

[mganz121 159]

Imagine sitting 3 feet from an 8 foot screen.

 

Hook

Hmmm. Thinking aloud here as I am sitting in a bar having a quick lunch. An 8 foot widescreen would equate to what? Just over 7 feet wide on the horizontal plain? Similar to a 737 cockpit instrument panel width?

 

To get the " real to life" feeling you would need to sit back no more than 16 inches !! lol.

 

Too much wine .... time to go back to work.

 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

 

[LHookins 3,102]

 

 

To get the " real to life" feeling you would need to sit back no more than 16 inches !! lol.
Too much wine .... time to go back to work.

 

Hehehe!  Fun, huh?

 

Hook

[odourboy 1,288]

So in summary I guess what I am trying to say here, the true zoom (1x) is consistent across all screen sizes.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but you seem to be saying that setting zoom = 1.0 is always the correct way to go.

 

"Almost Aviation" stated that setting WideAspect=True and zoom = 1 provides you with a vertical field of view of 35 degrees, regardless of monitor screen size or aspect ratio. However, in his second video, he indicated that you needed to alter the zoom setting to provide you with a 35 degree vertical FOV depending on your screen height and distance from the screen and provided a snazzy little equation to calculate the 'correct' zoom for your situation.

[hoser70 40]

I think there may be a way to zoom the cockpit view (not eyepoint) independent of the scenery FOV. I do not have P3D to confirm, but I read about it before and this thread seems to indicate this as well. Can anyone confirm?

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=4581

 

Humm... thanks for the link. I don't really understand what they are saying really as I haven't seen any of these settings "in-app." If they are there, I missed them.

[DarkstarF16 72]

All this discussion on zoom has made me curious. I have said that I always use 1.0 zoom with my three screen set up. Why? Because I set it up that way, and that’s how I’ve always used it. Right or wrong! I felt, 1.0 zoom gave me the best overall view of the cockpit and instruments without having to use my eyes (hat or TrackIR) to excess. But this thread has made me ask the question: Does it simulate reality, and what I would see if I was sitting in a real cockpit?

 

Regarding 1.0 zoom on my system; my opinion is, no it doesn’t. Bearing in mind, size of screen and viewing distance. My position in the cockpit and the view of the world, is much more realistic when viewed at 1.5 zoom. The issue is, without scrolling, I cannot see my instruments. Use your eyes, I hear you say! Just like the real world, when you properly look at your instruments, your view of where your going is momentarily obscured, because it’s in your peripheral vision. The issue with a screen is, it doesnt have peripheral vision, Its one view or the other. This is why zoom 1.0 appears to be the sweet spot between reality and usefulness for me. I define usefulness, as being able to scan instruments and still having a view of where you’re going.

 

It’s all a trade-off, between how much reality you need, and how important it is to see the instruments constantly when flying. Going to a more realistic view of the world, takes some getting used to

 

I wanted to convey how I view the world by taking a screenshot. In isolation, when you have three screens, a screenshot is misleading. That’s why I took an additional photograph to simulate as close as possible, what my eyes see. Even the camera is misleading, because its field of view is limited. Although I can see to the edge of each screen, only the portion that the camera shot displays is what my eyes focus on. The rest is in peripheral vision.

 

Screenshot 1.0 zoom

Camera 1.0 zoom

Screenshot 1.5 zoom

Camera 1.5 zoom

 

Conclusion based on my system, and I’m not trying to make any argument, for any zoom level.

1. Zoom 1.5 is without question the more realistic view of the cockpit and outside world. Let’s call it the ‘Realistic Zoom’.

2. Zoom 1.0 gives a better overall view of the outside world and the instruments. Let’s call it the ‘General Purpose Zoom’.

3. Screenshots, do not tell the whole story.

4. I jam using WideAspect=True

 

Of course, what I’ve maybe missed in the discussion so far is the relationship between zoom (making the world look real) and seat position (viewing the instruments) which I feel needs more discussion! I’ve just tried it, and on my system using 1.5 zoom when combined with seat position, changes the whole ball game. 1.5 makes the world a little too close when you move your seat back to see the instruments. Similarly, at 1.0 zoom and moving the seat forward makes the world look a little small. Somewhere between the two settings, feels like the real deal. Of course, I’m talking about a three monitor system. *screams*

 

 

[odourboy 1,288]

In pursuit of flying with the correct perspective, one thing I've discovered is moving your eyes to see the instruments is NOT the same as moving your head. With the proper zoom/distance setup, I've been finding that for the aircraft I often fly (small military jets with cramped cockpits) too much of the instrumentation is off-screen and I need to move my head in order to move the instruments into view (I use TrackIR5) to see them. I'm not sure if it's the constant head motion or the view moving around so much on the screen, but whatever it is, it's giving me a headache! :angry:

[denali 74]

There are better configurations to be made using the Custom Camera UI.  Open the Prepar3d Learning Center, and follow the Contents Tree to Prepar3D Product/Getting Started/ View System/ Custom Camera UI.  

 

Quick summary, right click (on the view you wish to augment) / custom camera / save location.  While you're experimenting, put a short name, like "as" (one handed) in the Name box.  Then override FOV and play with the Field of View settings.  There are FOV calculators available on the web.   Settings will have a stretch/compress effect on your view.  Play with the zoom and other settings.

 

You can preview the view, and even grab the edges of the preview to fill your whole monitor/s.  Save and desire to exit the dialog.  Then  right click  / custom camera / [the name you gave] to use the view. 

 

For me it is important to have the just enough panel visible for a full scan, even if it's small.  If I can read that first then I go for the external view.  

 

There are some issues when you change from view to view.  You have to reload the view (right click / custom camera / [view]) again to bring it back.

 

Try the fisheye post process.  Interesting eh?

 

I am working on a post-process to fix the fisheye/stretching distortion that plague 3 monitor views.  I already have satisfaction, but it does not stretch all the way across all three monitors, more like 1/2 of the side monitors, and it uses lazy math (it's a prototype).  There is no noticeable affect on framerate.   I am working on the correct math and filling all three monitors (my math ain't so good since I quit dealing drugs).

 

I would like to see the strip on my base leg or even downwind, and not have the geometry distorted from what I'd see IRL.  That and a readable scanable panel are my goals.

[LtRob 0]

Wide aspect = true and 0.70 zoom for me on all 5 panels.  I used 3 22" @ 5760 x 1200 using a TH2Go in FSX, but now run same resolution using NVidia Surround mode in P3D.  0.70 seemed to be "just right".  I have too other panels below the triple set used for main panel and a left side lower window panel also set at 0.70, mostly to match the upper triple set.

 

Rob

[theskyisthelimit 48]

After reading with interest I am looking for a steer on my zoom setting in P3D 3.2.

 

I have 3 x 23" LED screens running an Nvidia Surround res of 5760x1080.

 

I am using Prosim 737 Flight Model so the VC doesn't have any panels / instruments visible, its simply an out of the window view. My instruments are either physical or shown on another screen fed form another PC so I don't have to worry about what size the gauges look like or if I have to scroll down to see them.  My focus is to get the correct out of the window zoom level.

 

I use a single VC view which is stretched across all 3 monitors. The zoom level I have been using is 0.6 but on the outer edges of the left and right screen I get distortion.  I have tried 3 x separate views but this kills my FPS performance to 10 FPS so not really usable for me.

 

To remove the distortion I have to zoom to over 1.0 and maybe even go to 1.5 or 1.7.

 

The problem with 1.7 is that I lose the sense of speed when going down the runway.  Also the runway appears really short, however generally out of the window looks pretty good and the approach looks good!

 

I've watched the following video to try and get to the bottom of this:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjbCFNSofpk

 

Using his logic and my screen res I understand the following:-

 

Non-wide Aspect

zoom = 1080/5790 = 0.18 zoom

 

With WideAspect:-

zoom = 0.18 (from above) x 5790/1080 = 0.965

 

My eye point is 90cm away from my screen but this isn't taken into account in the formula?

 

 

So maybe 1.0 should work for me unless I have got this formula wrong?  I would be happy to see what you calculate it as based on my screen res and eye point distance?

 

Any suggestions?

 

Did you settle on anything different..

 

For small craft I had been setting the view to 1.0 and then moving the seat position/view point back a little, not sure if thats the most realistic, but it felt ok to me.

[MarkDH 234]

So maybe 1.0 should work for me unless I have got this formula wrong?  I would be happy to see what you calculate it as based on my screen res and eye point distance?

 

The physical dimensions of your display are relevant, not just the resolution. To account for the viewing distance, see part 2!