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Well, at least one dev is waking up... (or is it retreating...?)

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JV from Orbx posted this on the Orbx forum in reply to some posts about the lack of news about the new P3D 2.0 installers:

 

 

 

 

Well, at last... at least one dev is discovering you can't simply change the path in the installer tp P3D 2.0 and expect the addon to be compatible. There clearly is more to it!!! What we all said all along!

 

However, this really makes me wonder what they (and other devs) have been doing the last few months. Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's. JV has been posting for months that they were into P3D 2.0 and hinted at things being great and dandy. And when the (short) beta test was being held, they were into it all again and P3D 2.0 was awesome and great and we would be in for a surprise. (He also posted btw how the new shadows hardly had an impact on fps... yeah, right). And now, a few weeks after the release of P3D 2.0 they FINALLY say things are a bit different in P3D 2.0 than they expected or were used too...

 

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Another very nice thing that JV said:

 

 

 

 

So... they have promoted P3D 2.0 to pieces, telling us all it is the future, but when push comes to shove, well, they don't really have the time to make it all happen and we should be patient... (I am exaggerating a bit here: I of course understand they need time to change all their addons but to me this remark does feel like a retreat from previous statements. P3D 2.0 was to be the biggest thing since sliced bread but now it suddenly is a small sim for a few guys... Again, he doesn't say that but it sure feels like it.)

 

It really amazes me that Orbx seems to be SURPRISED by this... Really! Again, it makes you wonder what they and other devs have been doing the last few months. Or was LM communications with all 3PD's far below par...? Anyway, it will clearly take a lot more time to make various addon TRULY P3D 2.0 compatible. And it confirms that various addons that were already so called compatible really aren't. I mean, if those addon airports need a new Orbxlibs, so does FTX Global!

 

Good point. Reminds me of the progressive movement in my country. No logic, just emotion.

 

Bob

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C'mon everybody patience is a virtue!  And no I am not one of those FTX supporters that thanked JV !   I will remain patiently optimistic that's all.....


John Pipilas

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If you own Carenado products give them a try.. Carenado is notorious for sticking 100% with the FSX SDK so the likelyhood of his planes being a problem in Prepar3D v2 are slim..

 

Yes, I own three of them, which aren't directly suited for P3D according to their site, and I also read elsewhere they should work fine nonetheless, but I'm done experimenting for now, really... ^_^ I do however also think that companies who found ways to work around the FSX-system, like Orbx, will have more problems to get their products completely P3D 2.0 compatible. However, this isn't a reason for me to frown upon them because at the time I of course was very happy for all the innovations!!!

 

 

 


Orbx.....nuff said.

 

Well, I didn't start this topic to give everyone (yet) a(nother) opportunity to start bashing Orbx. ^_^ Orbx is the first dev I know that (finally) acknowledges things are different with P3D. So that's a good thing. The main point of my post was this: "However, this really makes me wonder what they (and other devs) have been doing the last few months. Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's." Obviously the additional information about 'back peddling', which is indeed a better word for it, sort of invited everyone to start making remarks about Orbx :rolleyes: but again, that was not my intent. There are more devs who took things too lightly.

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Hey Jeroen have you ported over that fabulous Norway freeware stuff into P3Dv2?  Is it compatible? 

 

I don't have P3D2 installed at the moment (awaiting the first update as Black Screen and other niggles just got too frustrating on a daily basis), but when I did, I had the most of the NORWAY! stuff installed (the AoN airports, the mesh, the NSX lc and vector, etc, etc, everything apart from some of the individual upgraded airports).

 

It functioned perfctly but FPS were definitely lower than in FSX;   even with P3D2 on very modest settings (no shadows, autogen sparse etc) to make it more comparable with FSX settings.   I had the same thing with the Majestic Q400;  amazing addon for frame rates in FSX but in P3D it was one of the heaviest.

 

Now here's something bizarre;   Coolsky DC-9; heavy(ish) frame rate demand in FSX right?......... light as you like in P3D2.... it runs like a default aircraft in P3D2 for me!

 

So the Norway stuff certainly installs and you can see it;  but like most FSX addons, all is not quite well when you're running it in P3D2.

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I have a theory, but it's just that.. What "devs have been doing"..  

 

Remember.. A theory..  FSX devs have had it easy for years.. They had open reign at a static target.. In comes LM and that stastic target is now growing new limbs and is no longer a static target..  Remember day one of release in this forum and the big push back there was from the FSX side of things (reminiscent of MS Flights push back)?  My theory is some 3PD tried getting blood from a stone..  ie: Things changed and they wanted them to stay the same..  A referee finally came in and said "No"...  

 

Again... Just a theory as I sit here sipping on my coffee and cursing at the TV because there is nothing to watch...  :lol:


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I had the same thing with the Majestic Q400; amazing addon for frame rates in FSX but in P3D it was one of the heaviest.

Hey Dave I was wondering how well the Q400 behaved in P3Dv2 in terms of FDE?  I have been having problems with it per my post here:  http://forum.avsim.net/topic/429104-erratic-fde-behaviour-in-p3dv2/#entry2880943

 

Any ideas?

Thanks


John Pipilas

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I seemed to recall LM stating that all FSX addons that were built to the FSX SDK should work in P3DV2. I also remember all the discussions about ORBX stuff not following the FSX SDK and breaking other developer's addons. I'm not surprised at all that ORBX is having problems porting over their FSX stuff. I just hope that ORBX follows the P3DV2 SDK and includes uninstallers when they release their official P3DV2 versions.

 

Ted 


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I had the same thing with the Majestic Q400; amazing addon for frame rates in FSX but in P3D it was one of the heaviest.

 

Now here's something bizarre; Coolsky DC-9; heavy(ish) frame rate demand in FSX right?......... light as you like in P3D2.... it runs like a default aircraft in P3D2 for me!

I hope the Q400 will be back to it's super light fps when we have a true installer for it.

Amazing news about the DC-9. IT was really bad, I deleted it.

 

About Orbx, come on guys you know there forums are for happy clapper's.

JV is the CEO and likes to be judged on sales nothing else, he has said many times he is not running a dating site.

I just don't understand why someone who can run a company so well can not see that Orbx needs someone on the "front desk" and he is not the man for the job nor are some of the mod's.

Orbx forums Orbx rules, smile, clap, be happy or be very carful when you post.

 

Having said all that I think Global is an amazing product for flying into and out of huge city.

 

@J

You was far to fast in jumping ship to P3D. Reinstall FSX, Global and the A2A 172 and you will fall over at how many fps you get. You fault was you were just to keen. Dave was but I see he is back to fsx now.

You don't need to be flying P3D to enjoy flight sim'ing.

Dave you have a insane amount of posts for 8 months, am reporting you for spam :lol:

Still think in a years time we will all be flying in P3D.


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You was far to fast in jumping ship to P3D. Reinstall FSX, Global and the A2A 172 and you will fall over at how many fps you get. You fault was you were just to keen.

 

Probably true. ^_^ But that's me LOL I always dive into something at full throttle. But after being annoyed for years by popping up autogen, I just can't let go of P3D 2.0 right now... ^_^ It's my choice to stick with P3D 2.0 and so it's also my choice to deal with bugs and addons not working. Then again... it's always nice having something to moan about... if everything would simply work, this hobby would become boring very quickly!  B) :P

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This is all setting up as the same as FS9 to FSX. Similarities but still quite different. Isn't it a little delusional to think that products working in FSX would suddenly and magically work in V2? I see it as good news. This means a whole lot was done that change the internal dynamics of the simulator. Think about it. Irregardless of adhering to the SDK, lots of bugs and old code were squashed. A lot of optimization done to the very foundations. Things that previous FSX products were built around and depend on. Now suddenly they r not there. So wild things happen. 1.4 behaved mostly the same because it was relatively minor changes. DX9 to DX9. No big deal. Now we have DX9 to DX11. Those r some radically different method being employed. It might be recognized but certainly not optimized nor is it going to be bug free.

 

All this sounds frustrating but I'm just thankful imagine took the FSX bull by the horns and is now making it to be a more graceful eagle like Sim. It will take some time, but LM is willing to bend over backwards to help and accommodate 3PDs (or so it seems and relative to MS). Umberto at FSDT is really excited for the changes and the possibilities because of all the bugs and limitations greatly reduced and I'm sure he mirrors many dev sentiments. Let the puppy grow. She will be fun.

 

Sent from my LG-D803 using Tapatalk

 


CYVR LSZH 

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Well, Orbx had their hands on the beta for months and months so I can't really find fault with LM's communication. 

Orbx may of made some assumptions (i.e. "well, LM will just change this for us") that didn't come to pass. That's on them.

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This is all setting up as the same as FS9 to FSX. Similarities but still quite different. Isn't it a little delusional to think that products working in FSX would suddenly and magically work in V2?

Yes of course and most understand that.. JVE's point is Orbx created this fairy tale romance of compatibility and that they and LM were holding hands frolicking through a meadow of daisys together... Posting screenshots etc of their stuff in P3Dv2... All but saying... Follow us! Follow us to Prepar3D v2 where it's rainbows and unicorns with our products!!

 

Now, the brakes are locked up and there is a lot of back peddling.. No one minds waiting and I know many understand that things might not be a perfect match but when a developer is selling you on something otherwise people tend to believe it..

 

Long story short.. John jumped the gun...


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Now they'll get to work developing REAL V2 addons optimized for it.

 

Has there been any software that has been 'performance optimized' for V2?  And moreover, does anyone really know what 'optimized' can mean for V2?

 

After flying into FlightBeam's KPHX the other day in the Duke w/o even the VC displaying, i.e. forward open view only, I was seeing only~ 24 FPS (V2 was i focus too) and slider settings had almost NO impact on this.   The really bad part was:  GPU utilization was relatively weak there, compared to say the test flight I did in the SF Bay area where I could get GPU use up to 99%.  Why does KPHX NOT utilize the GPU strongly and presumably as a result performance really suffers?   I very much love the visuals but I cannot see using V2 for the heavy PMDG stuff since those are typically flown out of bigger terminals and performance can really suffer in those sorts of areas.  Right now in FSX in the T7 I can fly out of KSAN and never go below 37 fps or so and I think in V2 that will likely plunge into the mid to hopefully high teens, just a guess stemming from seeing how the Duke runs for example flying around KLAX, and that would be not useable for me.  And again, slider settings DO NOT have predictable scalability as is the case uniformly w/ FSX in my experience.  I sense there are fundamental coding issues that allow some product to work quite well in the FSX domain, yet tank in V2, and slider settings in V2 don't always mitigate this.


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Isn't it a little delusional to think that products working in FSX would suddenly and magically work in V2?

 

Not if LM and various devs told us so...! Looking at the problems DX10 gave us all, I was surprised to read that P3D 2.0 would have no problems with FSX addons but well, if both LM and the devs tell you things will be great, who am I to doubt that? But well, it's pretty clear by now how things really are.

 

Let me be clear: I always said I rather have a better and up to date sim than backwards compatibility! But well, if they offer backwards compatibility, I also won't moan.. But now things don't work as advertised, I do moan. ^_^ I do however agree that it's a good thing certain things have changed. They only should have warned everyone.

 

BTW Yesterday I asked on the Orbx forum why they didn't yet post a single reply to the various topics about the white lights problem with FTXG. A few others chimed in but still no reply. I also noticed that the list of things they are working on doesn't mention the problem with the trees (which shows a wrong texture), so that's another thing that's being ignored...? I am positive about the future of P3D 2.0 but less positive about the role Orbx will have in it. I for one will certainly NOT buy FTX Vector and OpenLC, as I was planning too! I will wait until FTXG has been fixed and then I will wait for reports about Vector and OpenLC before I spend money on it.

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Has there been any software that has been 'performance optimized' for V2?  And moreover, does anyone really know what 'optimized' can mean for V2?

 

After flying into FlightBeam's KPHX the other day in the Duke w/o even the VC displaying, i.e. forward open view only, I was seeing only~ 24 FPS (V2 was i focus too) and slider settings had almost NO impact on this.   The really bad part was:  GPU utilization was relatively weak there, compared to say the test flight I did in the SF Bay area where I could get GPU use up to 99%.  Why does KPHX NOT utilize the GPU strongly and presumably as a result performance really suffers?   I very much love the visuals but I cannot see using V2 for the heavy PMDG stuff since those are typically flown out of bigger terminals and performance can really suffer in those sorts of areas.  Right now in FSX in the T7 I can fly out of KSAN and never go below 37 fps or so and I think in V2 that will likely plunge into the mid to hopefully high teens, just a guess stemming from seeing how the Duke runs for example flying around KLAX, and that would be not useable for me.  And again, slider settings DO NOT have predictable scalability as is the case uniformly w/ FSX in my experience.  I sense there are fundamental coding issues that allow some product to work quite well in the FSX domain, yet tank in V2, and slider settings in V2 don't always mitigate this.

 

I saw the same thing with KPHX. 

 

FSDT's KDFW runs well but KPHX plunges. In FSX it was the opposite. I got worse performance at KDFW (it's bigger, more AI, so makes sense). 

 

So something is going on with Flightbeam's add ons. 

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