Emergencies? GET OUT!

[Kuragiman 227]

Question?   VatSIM is suppose to be a full blown simulation of flying and ATC, working together in harmony to produce the most realistic flight experience possible.   Why was I told to handle my emergency offline?   One of my gear would not deploy so I had to bring it in with a wheels up landing at KMCI-Kansas.   Emergencies are a part of the reality of flying.    Instead of punting someone off VatSIM for having a problem, why aren't people working the problems like the real thing?    So what if someone just shutdown a runway because they spread their plane across the runway.  Tough.   It happens in reality unfortunately.  Open another runway or shutdown the airport until the problem is cleared I say.    I felt really put off, like I was suddenly a disease to the network because my plane developed a problem.   I am of the opinion that it should not be swept under a rug but that VatSIM controllers should be taught how to handle these situations just as I have to train and learn how to handle my plane during these problems that can arise.   Now, it should be noted, that it was not a VatSIM controller that told me to bugger off but other pilots in the area (there was no controller at the time).  I have been online when someone else had a problem and a controller did tell them to continue their emergency offline.    So apparently, this is written in policy that you need to disconnect from the server when there is an issue with your plane.    I find this utterly baffling that you would not want to allow for a bit of exciting drama to spice up the day and add that extra layer of realism to the simulation.   What is the reasoning behind this policy?   Other than it can block a runway for use, I see no reason why controllers and pilots should have to deal with these problems realistically.   Thanks for your answers and perspectives on this issue.

[Kyprianos Biris 12]

So apparently, this is written in policy that you need to disconnect from the server when there is an issue with your plane.  

 

This is not what the policy says.

http://www.vatsim.net/network/docs/coc/

Please read Code of Conduct B.8

 

You post the above basing your thoughts on what "some pilots" in the area told you.

"Some pilots" do not represent VATSIM's stance on an issue.

 

Nobody (as I understand it) blocks you from executing your emergency.

The delicate issue is (not) making a big issue about it on frequency when you are not under ATC service.

 

In simple words think of it another way, who cares (on Unicom Frequency) if you are announcing your emergency somewhere in the network within text transmissions range. Your emergency is not affecting anyone's flying unless they are ahead of you bound for the same runway.

So simulate whatever pleases you with that emergency. Its just that there is no need to do a big fuss about it to people monitoring the frequency who are not going to be affected by it.

[LeeL 272]

I like the idea of having to shut down airports or runways.... Would add more to it.

 

There would be the possible issue of it happening to much though maybe

 

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[William J.S.S 173]

Vatsim will allow them. But it is at the controllers discretion on how busy He is. If that airport is slammed or it is during an event that took a bunch of time to set up then yes you will be asked to disconnect

 

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[LeeL 272]

Vatsim will allow them. But it is at the controllers discretion on how busy He is. If that airport is slammed or it is during an event that took a bunch of time to set up then yes you will be asked to disconnect

 

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This is true, I've had failures with no problems and only been asked to disconnect once. And that was when I was stuck on the runway. So understandable

 

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[ESzczesniak 128]

The other issue is that simulator pilots are going to simulate emergencies at a far greater rate than the real world.  Given that VATSIM can not control that, I think their policy of "at the controller's discretion" is actually very appropriate.

[LeeL 272]

The other issue is that simulator pilots are going to simulate emergencies at a far greater rate than the real world.  Given that VATSIM can not control that, I think their policy of "at the controller's discretion" is actually very appropriate.

 

Yes I agree, and that is something very important

[Kuragiman 227]

All valid points.   I can certainly understand it if it is during testing, though I think one planned emergency should be thrown in just to see how they handle it.   ^_^   Don't tell the controller that it's coming but the Supervisor picks a plane and messages them to start an emergency procedure.

 

And me landing my airplane with wheels up across a major airport *IS* something that every pilot coming and going from that airport needs to know so it NEEDS to be communicated across Unicom.   I would not want a pilot to remain silent as I am coming in behind them to see their flaming wreckage on my final landing runway on short final.

 

I think I was more annoyed in the manner in which I was told to get off.  To quote,  "Dude, handle your emergency offline, Geezzzz..."      My initial thoughts involved the words Screw and You.    Thanks for the input everyone.   I'll keep it in mind the next time one of my engines fall off or the gear fairies tamper with my gear hydraulics.   :lol:

[hopskip 253]

All valid points.   I can certainly understand it if it is during testing, though I think one planned emergency should be thrown in just to see how they handle it.   ^_^   Don't tell the controller that it's coming but the Supervisor picks a plane and messages them to start an emergency procedure.

 

And me landing my airplane with wheels up across a major airport *IS* something that every pilot coming and going from that airport needs to know so it NEEDS to be communicated across Unicom.   I would not want a pilot to remain silent as I am coming in behind them to see their flaming wreckage on my final landing runway on short final.

 

I think I was more annoyed in the manner in which I was told to get off.  To quote,  "Dude, handle your emergency offline, Geezzzz..."      My initial thoughts involved the words Screw and You.    Thanks for the input everyone.   I'll keep it in mind the next time one of my engines fall off or the gear fairies tamper with my gear hydraulics.   :lol:

 

Air Traffic Controllers need to know. Some random other flight might not.

 

Unless you actually intend to sit on the runway for a few hours, in which case... how inconsiderate of you.

 

If you do it in the middle of a major event like Cross the Pond that takes upwards of 4 months of planning to happen (and involves people like me in Australia staying up all night) you might be asked to be quiet about it. No screaming mayday and demanding that they shut an entire airport down for 20 minutes while you make your way to the airport. Don't have an unrealistic expectation to demand whole airports to be shut down. Don't yell. Don't say May Day May Day May Day OMG AAAAH WEZ BE ON PHAIR LULZ!!!!!!!

 

ATC is there to stop aircraft touching each other. Not to tell you how to land your plane or troubleshoot your aircraft.

 

Pilot: Mayday Mayday Mayday MD80 dual engine failure gliding to *airport*

ATC: Roger... Track direct to "Airport" Altitude unrestricted break 737, turn left heading 320 vectors for separation from emergency aircraft at 14,000ft descending.

737: Turning heading 320, 737.

ATC: 747 track direct WAYPT

747: Track direct WAYPT

ATC: Pilot, airport is at your 11 o'clock, runway 27 cleared to land.

Pilot: *Random information nobody cares about - Restarting stuff, other stuff failing, something about trucks*

ATC: (thinking to self: Why is he talking about trucks? this isn't some roleplaying game!)

[red259 31]

All valid points.   I can certainly understand it if it is during testing, though I think one planned emergency should be thrown in just to see how they handle it.   ^_^   Don't tell the controller that it's coming but the Supervisor picks a plane and messages them to start an emergency procedure.

 

And me landing my airplane with wheels up across a major airport *IS* something that every pilot coming and going from that airport needs to know so it NEEDS to be communicated across Unicom.   I would not want a pilot to remain silent as I am coming in behind them to see their flaming wreckage on my final landing runway on short final.

 

I think I was more annoyed in the manner in which I was told to get off.  To quote,  "Dude, handle your emergency offline, Geezzzz..."      My initial thoughts involved the words Screw and You.    Thanks for the input everyone.   I'll keep it in mind the next time one of my engines fall off or the gear fairies tamper with my gear hydraulics.   :lol:

The controllers are trained to handle emergencies, but it is their discretion if they have enough time to handle the emergency given other traffic. That being said no controller should be speaking that way to you. I had an incredibly rude controller once who was berating me as well as other pilots in the area. I'm currently studying to be a vatsim controller and never intend to be rude to pilots even if they are rude to me. On the flip side I have dealt with a number of controllers who are incredibly patient and professional. It looks like you just came across someone who may have been having a bad day, but I have found rude controllers to be by far the exception rather than the rule. I would recommend anyone who is simulating emergencies not to do so during major events though. Its just too much with all those pilots in the air at once. 

[Kuragiman 227]

I can totally understand the whole event planning thing.  You don't need someone screwing up months of planning.

 

I do disagree with the last thing you said in your scenario post up above.

 

ATC: (thinking to self: Why is he talking about trucks? this isn't some roleplaying game!)  

 

You absolutely ARE playing a roleplaying game in a sense when you take to the pilot's chair or the virtual tower.   You are pretending to be a ATC controller/pilot.. you are in fact, roleplaying by that very definition.    If someone tosses in, "have equipment standing by" in their emergency landing final moments you should not blast them with both barrels for enjoying their role as Captain of an airliner.   It takes 2 seconds for the controller to throw in, "equipment will be standing by." and thus add to the immersion factor and also improve acting skills.   :lol:

[Eric Tomlin 10]

While participating in World Flight this past November, mind you in a very expensive full motion 737NG sim, we had a real Fuel/Engine System emergency and actually lost both engines at FL280. As we began descending to keep our airspeed up, we naturally contacted ATC and advised that we might need an alternate. He began working to get us on track to a suitable place and then the situation became even more dire we needed the nearest place on the ground despite runway length. Thankfully we got one engine re-started and then the second one back online and all was good. I believe we decended to 11k feet. Thankfully that controller was very helpful and never at any time thought we were playing around and adding drama to the already very busy ATC environment (during World Flight, mind you).

 

In case you do not know what World Flight is, see here: http://worldflight.cockpitbuilders.com/

 

So, I guess it all depends on the controllers, what's going on, and many other parts of the situation. With us being an official WF team, he likely understood that we would not be risking getting behind in the flight for something not "real" or urgent.

[Captain Kevin 586]

Really comes down to the controller. Some of them don't like handling emergencies. Others welcome the challenge.

[RedSpinnaker 35]

When I used to control, it all boiled down to how and when you initiated the emergency. If you're number 20 in sequence to an airport during an event, I'd decline the emergency, unless you were willing to divert to a nearby field (you weren't going to the head of the line to that field).

 

Also, if you start screaming "mayday, mayday, mayday, just lost 3 of my engines on my 747, I can't fly my plane... ahhhhhh"... Guess the outcome. If you tell me "just lost an engine, declaring an emergency, would like to return to the field (or insert other request here)"... no problem at all, what can I do to help?

 

Unfortunately, in my experience, the number of folks that declaring an emergency was a method to get attention/priority treatment far outweighed those that declaring an emergency was to notify ATC they had an issue that they were actively working to resolve and may need assistance from ATC.

[P50andpilot 7]

Also, if you start screaming "mayday, mayday, mayday, just lost 3 of my engines on my 747, I can't fly my plane... ahhhhhh"... Guess the outcome. If you tell me "just lost an engine, declaring an emergency, would like to return to the field (or insert other request here)"... no problem at all, what can I do to help?

 

Unfortunately, in my experience, the number of folks that declaring an emergency was a method to get attention/priority treatment far outweighed those that declaring an emergency was to notify ATC they had an issue that they were actively working to resolve and may need assistance from ATC.

Exactly what I recall happening the most. Ridiculous emergencies that were declared BEFORE there was even software that would randomly give you an emergency situation. It happened all the time and was just too much.

 

 

Justin whetstone