RW Hands on Flying, Scary.

[FLEX1978 373]

I have a couple friends flying on the line. My F/O friend on the A319/20/21 told me that SOP at ACA is to have the A/T on at all times during the flight (you never shut it off, even when landing). Another friend at WJA said they have to keep it on until the 100ft call out.....

 

So there you go...

Yep, it's a bit strange in the bus when it comes to company policy regarding Autothrust. Boeing made it clear on the 777 that the A/T should be kept in, every company I know of forbids disengaging it.

 

On Airbus they advise A/THR should be used, some company's say only disengage during gusty approaches, others leave it down to the Captain.

 

Most people I speak to say its a joy to fly with the AP & A/THR off, and G/S mini with A/THR on can be a little unpredictable at times.

 

Regards

[Need-To-Know 34]

Dillon, That's great buddy. Let's take anymore career talk (if we do)  on PMs.

[Dillon 2,197]

That's great buddy. Let's take anymore career (if we do) talk on PMs.

 

Not quite getting what your saying here but it sounds like for anymore career talk let's PM each other.

[CrewF16 26]

AT would not be a problem. I think we still need the whole ball of wax but you still need to keep hands on those levers in case of failures or confusion. (Asiana) I am sure it is possible that certain carriers have rules about AP disengagement. Not one video did I see the AP still on at 100'. Regs say above 18,000.

 

Thanks,

Ron

[FLEX1978 373]

AT would not be a problem. I think we still need the whole ball of wax but you still need to keep hands on those levers in case of failures or confusion. (Asiana) I am sure it is possible that certain carriers have rules about AP disengagement. Not one video did I see the AP still on at 100'. Regs say above 18,000.

 

Thanks,

Ron

Can you elaborate on the last part of that post, I don't get it?

 

Cheers

[CrewF16 26]

FAR's stipulate that the AP must be engaged above 18,000.

[FLEX1978 373]

Huh, seriously? I have never heard of that.. I think you are getting confused with RVSM, above FL290 autopilot must be 'available' you can still hand fly to and from cruise, level flight the autopilot should be engaged.

 

Regards

[metalmike 34]

 

Had a nice chat with a A330 right seater a few months back at a BBQ, he said as long as the captain is happy he will disconnect the AP, Autothrust and flight directors at Top of descent & hand fly the machine.

 

Nothing stopping other flight crew doing the same.

 

 

So how would he hand fly an IFR plan with not even a FD guidance?

[FLEX1978 373]

So how would he hand fly an IFR plan with not even a FD guidance?

Hey Mike,

 

FD is an aid to the Job, nothing more. would be pretty scary if it was a mandatory tool to safely operate an airliner.

 

Just a side note - On Airbus if you are hand flying with Autothrust on, it is strongly advised to have the flight directors off to force the system into SPEED.

[japascoe 98]

So how would he hand fly an IFR plan with not even a FD guidance?

 

The vertical bar of the FD just tells you whether your should turn left or right to end up / stay on the magenta line on your ND, the horizontal bar just tells you where to pitch to maintain airspeed or altitude. It's not anything you can't work out for yourself if you're a competent pilot. I'm pretty sure masses of (pre-G1000) C172 pilots manage to hand-fly IFR plans every day without FD or even ND guidance.

 

Hey Mike,

 

FD is an aid to the Job, nothing more. would be pretty scary if it was a mandatory tool to safely operate an airliner.

 

Just a side note - On Airbus if you are hand flying with Autothrust on, it is strongly advised to have the flight directors off to force the system into SPEED.

 

Odd; on climb-out for example wouldn't you want to keep the thrust set to climb thrust and then pitch for speed? Not calling your knowledge into question, just trying to understand the logic.

[FLEX1978 373]

On take off/climb out you would want the FD on, it provides your SRS (Speed reference system guidance) If you departed with the flight directors off on the bus you don't even get Autothrust.

 

It's whats called a raw data take off, you have a procedure to follow, sorry don't have the FCOM reference but you can probably find it online typing 'A320 raw data take off'

 

My comment was based on the approach/landing phase. If you hand fly with FD & Autothrust on, the system can do some strange things if not handled correctly, turning the FD off forces it to SPEED, Autothrust is responsive and you know exactly what is going to do.

 

With the FD on in Open descent or not completey following the FD commands, you can get yourself into trouble pretty quickly!

[FLEX1978 373]

Edit - sorry was going to post a useful link but it is copy righted & against the avsim rules :(

[KevinAu 441]

Odd; on climb-out for example wouldn't you want to keep the thrust set to climb thrust and then pitch for speed? Not calling your knowledge into question, just trying to understand the logic.

It's a trick to force the system to push up the power on a climb and pull the power back on a descent when you have chosen to hand fly or otherwise choose not to use the modes the way they were intended with A/T on. On the E190, we would do a similar thing if we choose to hand fly or choose not to use the proper climb or descents modes. With the autothrust in speed, you can spin the speed knob all the way up to redline and then manually or using vertical speed, pitch back into the climb. The thrust will go to the max limit trying to achieve a speed it can not reach. And you can then just pitch for your desired climb speed or rate.

[japascoe 98]

On take off/climb out you would want the FD on, it provides your SRS (Speed reference guidance) If you departed with the flight directors off on the bus you don't even get Autothrust.

 

It's whats called a raw data take off, you have a procedure to follow, sorry don't have the FCOM reference but you can probably find it online typing 'A320 raw data take off'

 

My comment was based on the approach/landing phase. If you hand fly with FD & Autothrust on, the system can do some strange things if not handled correctly, turning the FD off forces it to SPEED, Autothrust is responsive and you know exactly what is going to do.

 

With the FD on in Open descent or not completey following the FD commands, you can get yourself into trouble pretty quickly!

 

Makes sense, thanks!

[metalmike 34]

Hey Mike,

 

FD is an aid to the Job, nothing more. would be pretty scary if it was a mandatory tool to safely operate an airliner.

 

Just a side note - On Airbus if you are hand flying with Autothrust on, it is strongly advised to have the flight directors off to force the system into SPEED.

 

What I meant was, say you're supposed to be flying to a certain fix/intersection. How do you know you're on the right course?