Nathan3219

Razbam Metroliner Released

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I really wonder about 3rd party developers sometimes.......first 100 customers? What nonsense.

 

I returned a Q400 this afternoon intending to purchase the Metro. The Metro bundle and the Q were both $60. With this price increase and some of the issues that others have mentioned I'll wait a while before I jump in.

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Very silly strategy doing the 'first 100 customers' stuff IMHO. From my perspective today is the first day ive heard of this product and in the 3 mins its taken to read the thread the price goes up??

 

Ive had one (admittedly early) Razbam product before and was not impressed so definitely not jumping on this bandwagon at this price, for something that might wipe my DLL.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

 

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I was ready to purchase this, but wiping a dll file, that's cruel. I'm even more surprised that the download wasn't pulled immediatly after this became known.

 

It is worrying that there are so many addons that tamper with defualt files without asking permission from the user first. Every addon should come with full disclousure as to what is altered and installed where.

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This is awful marketing strategy. Everybody knows that the first 10 or 100 really is infinite when it comes to software, its not like they are gonna run out! What did they do with the extra orders, numbers 101,102 etc, did they return money lol?

 

This has succeeded in only pxxsing people off

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What?  They offered the Metro at $10 off for the first 100 purchasers?  That's really bad marketing for downloadable software.  I think a better plan, if you want to offer an initial sale, would  be to give the discount for a specified length of time.  I guess the real winners are those who paid $45 for the beta version and can obtain the final version as a free update.

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Hmmm... would be interested in this one - kind of strange to me that nothing is stated about the release on their webpage - except when you go to the store. Only release info is on Facebook... They don't even have a dedicated product page or an image gallery and (according to FB) they released it 3 days ago. Bad marketing - especially considering that they obviously put some work into this simulation (at least what I can see from the pictures on FB).

 

I'll wait and see...

 

GG

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Yes.. I also think their marketing lacks. You can't find proper screenshots, videos etc'. It gives you a vague feeling of the product you're trying to buy.

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Razbam should have spent some time updating their web site with photos instead of spending time gaming their pricing model. They have to persuade people to buy it first.   Am I the only guy that doesn't use Facebay?


What?  They offered the Metro at $10 off for the first 100 purchasers?  That's really bad marketing for downloadable software.  I think a better plan, if you want to offer an initial sale, would  be to give the discount for a specified length of time.  I guess the real winners are those who paid $45 for the beta version and can obtain the final version as a free update.

The real winners might be those who take their Christmas money and try the NGX or Q400.

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I really wanted this at $45.00 since I had my mind set on it at that price.  Now, it has hit the psychological "over $49.99 keep the credit card in wallet unless it's a really strongly vouched for terrific product stage."  I'll wait for the sale. 

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Price increase?  Why?  To cover the restocking fee? 

 

Was interested in this for P3D2 but between the missing start locks (which, if I recall correctly, Aerosoft also modeled on their Bronco) and the pricing, my interest is cooling rapidly.

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Re: the start locks.  This is what the Razbam Metroliner aircraft manual says about unfeathering, which I understand is a pre-condition to engaging the start locks: 

 

UNFEATHERING
The unfeather pump is actuated for airstarts by pressing the engine START button when weight is off the landing gear.
Fig. 48 UNFEATHER TEST Switch
The unfeather pump may also be operated by an
UNFEATHER TEST switch (Figure 48) with two positions L
and R. Holding this switch in the L or R position will
unfeather the propeller until the switch is released.

 

 

And this is what the manual says about Start  Locks:

 

START LOCKS
The propeller start locks are used to maintain a blade angle that will produce the minimum resistance to start
acceleration. The propeller must always be on the start locks prior to attempting a ground start.
The propeller start locks consist of two spring‐loaded pins that engage the propeller piston and, consequently, lock the
blades in a flat pitch position. The start locks remain engaged following engine start because of the shear loads applied
to the pins by the propeller piston. The start locks are released when ready to taxi by selecting REVERSE with the power
lever to remove shear loads.
During a normal shutdown, the STOP button is first pushed to shut off fuel; then the power lever is moved into REVERSE
as the rpm decays below 50%. As the propeller decelerates the start locks re‐engage. After the rpm decays below 10%
the power levers can be released.

 

Perhaps some of the real-world former pilots of this aircraft can comment on if they believe that these are correct descriptions of the start lock operation and procedures on the Metroliner. 

 

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Re: the start locks.  This is what the Razbam Metroliner aircraft manual says about unfeathering, which I understand is a pre-condition to engaging the start locks: 

 

UNFEATHERING

The unfeather pump is actuated for airstarts by pressing the engine START button when weight is off the landing gear.

Fig. 48 UNFEATHER TEST Switch

The unfeather pump may also be operated by an

UNFEATHER TEST switch (Figure 48) with two positions L

and R. Holding this switch in the L or R position will

unfeather the propeller until the switch is released.

 

 

And this is what the manual says about Start  Locks:

 

START LOCKS

The propeller start locks are used to maintain a blade angle that will produce the minimum resistance to start

acceleration. The propeller must always be on the start locks prior to attempting a ground start.

The propeller start locks consist of two spring‐loaded pins that engage the propeller piston and, consequently, lock the

blades in a flat pitch position. The start locks remain engaged following engine start because of the shear loads applied

to the pins by the propeller piston. The start locks are released when ready to taxi by selecting REVERSE with the power

lever to remove shear loads.

During a normal shutdown, the STOP button is first pushed to shut off fuel; then the power lever is moved into REVERSE

as the rpm decays below 50%. As the propeller decelerates the start locks re‐engage. After the rpm decays below 10%

the power levers can be released.

 

Perhaps some of the real-world former pilots of this aircraft can comment on if they believe that these are correct descriptions of the start lock operation and procedures on the Metroliner. 

That's exactly how a real Metro operates... the Razbam Metro props are animated to a flat pitch when stopped, regardless of whether you follow start lock procedures or attempt to unfeather;   I will load it and double check.

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I bought the beta version, which, over time, improvements were implemented, the final release still has bugs and I won't be flying it until they are all sorted out. The biggest problem is the lack of support from Razbam, they tend to favor posting facebook bulletins instead of addressing users problems in the forums. It's a nice aircraft and certainly fills the void in twin turboprop aircraft missing in the FSX aircraft stable. If Razbam address the issues raised it will be a good addition to FSX/P3D/2 users.

 

Beta buyers get the full bundle for free.

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I've been flying the Metroliner and LSH MD-82 an awful lot lately... I think some of you guys are missing out!

 

I departed from Buffalo bound for Elmira following the real-world Ameriflight 1315 flight, and the weather was lousy, with moderate snow and low visibility. When I took off and was about 2500 feet AGL, I could feel some heavy turbulence that I've never felt with ANY other addon plane before with FSX... it was great. I also enjoy the systems, and I find it pretty cool how your EGT responds to OAT.

 

Some people have asked how it is compared to the JS41. I'll tell you that it is in the same category that I'd put the MJC Q400, PMDG JS4100, and F1 B200 for turboprops. All four are fantastic aircraft.

 

And start locks? I never even bothered with them in the J41, and I never had engine trouble.

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've been flying the Metroliner and LSH MD-82 an awful lot lately...

 

What is the LSH MD-82?  Thanks.

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I've been flying the Metroliner and LSH MD-82 an awful lot lately... I think some of you guys are missing out!

 

 

I can see that you are excited - but as I mentioned earlier - I still would like to see something official from RAZBAM except their FB page with pictures taken during development. 4 days now and still no mentioning on the their homepage. No official release images, no videos, no dedicated product page (like for all their other products) - actually the latest news on their webpage is from 04.11.11 concerning their Harrier product. No official release info on AVSIM  (or other flightsim-communities for that matter) - only unofficial forum topics like yours at different places.

 

Also - other distributors such as Simmarket do not offer the Metroliner, despite the fact that they are offering other RAZBAM products. Same on The Flightsimstore.

 

For a $50 purchase ... what's their plan here? The price is way higher than any other RAZBAM product so I would like them trying to convince me why that's the case. But no - one has to stumble over some unofficial forum topics to even know about the release (if you are not checking their FB regularly, like me - I am not even on FB - I did not even know they had a FB page, found it via Google). I would assume - with a release 4 days before X-Mas - that would be all over the place. Especially with a rather unusual and interesting plane such as the Metroliner. In my opinion - commercial turboprops are totally neglected in the native FSX world and I can imagine a market for that.

 

I have to be honest here - smells fishy to me. Maybe I am missing out - but $50 for a blind buy.... no deal. The ones missing out here is RAZBAM. Don't get me wrong - I own some RAZBAM products and I am happy with these purchases...But that's just how I feel about it.

 

GG

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@Nathan3219 - thanks for the report. Sounds like it has good atmosphere, which matters to me. Would like to hear more about the bugs that others have mentioned. Am not rushing to buy it but am happy to consider it - it'd fill a niche for me, so I'd like it to work out.

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The ones missing out here is RAZBAM.

 

Yeah, I can agree with you there.  They kind of shot themselves in the foot, because they have made a high quality propliner, but they did a poor job with their marketing.

@Nathan3219 - thanks for the report. Sounds like it has good atmosphere, which matters to me. Would like to hear more about the bugs that others have mentioned. Am not rushing to buy it but am happy to consider it - it'd fill a niche for me, so I'd like it to work out.

 

The only bug I've noticed is you can see the landing lights in front of you on the ground at night from about 50 to 500 feet AGL, even when you are in a 10 degree climb. Other than that, I've had a pretty flawless experience.

 

 

 


What is the LSH MD-82? Thanks.

 

The LSH MD-82 is the Leonardo Fly the Maddog 2010 addon for FSX that is by far the best MD-80 simulation around. The graphics are a bit dated, but the systems and overall immersion is top notch, at the same level as PMDG and Majestic Software. In my opinion, it is the one of the best addons currently available for FSX.

 

Check them out: http://www.flythemaddog.com/

 

My regards,

Nathan3219

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The LSH MD-82 is the Leonardo Fly the Maddog 2010 addon for FSX that is by far the best MD-80 simulation around.

 

Thanks. I'll check it out.  Do you know of it works and plays well with P3D?

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Thanks. I'll check it out.  Do you know of it works and plays well with P3D?

 

Don't use P3D so no idea if the Maddog works with it.

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The LSH MD-82 is the Leonardo Fly the Maddog 2010 addon for FSX

 

I get the acronym LS = Leonardo Simulations, but what's the H for? LSH...

 

Anyway, I am also a fan of the Leo MD82

 

Here's the Leonardo Software MD82 in action.

Note: Vatsim + Multiplayer cockpit with another pilot (on Skype for voice) = awesome.

The Leo MD82 is one of the only good quality addons so far that have full multi-crew over IP support. Every switch, FMC entry, autoflight manipulation and so on is reflected into the other partner's aircraft in real time.

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I'm a little biased, having flown Metros for about four years, but it's definitely better than the J41 IMO.   A completely convincing, well equipped and functional interior, with pretty much everything you could get in a late model, heavy Metro.   For a new release of a relatively complex aircraft, there's not a lot of bugs and only a few compromised functions.  A decent if not (yet) perfect flight model, certainly better than the Bronco or J41 in that respect.

 

 

 

What's the problem with the JS41?  (I assume you're talking about PMDG here, not "real airplanes")

And how is that so different to this Metro?

 

The Jumpy prop RPM on this bird is a bit weird and not something I've seen in the JS41.

 

The start locks don't seem to be simulated in this Metro, but are in the JS41.

 

The "default FSX Turboprop" torque and RPM lag & overshoot is present in both this Metro and the PMDG JS41. (the ONLY product that has fixed this is Majestic's Q400).

 

response to control surfaces seems similar in both aircraft, though the metro may have more elevator authority than the PMDG product.

 

I have seen the "Engines randomly shut down despite being well inside limits & no other indications of failure" issue followed by the "Feathering props doesn't do anything" issue once so far in the Metro.  Only time this happens in the PMDG is when you do actually exceed limits.

 

I have seen a bug with the Metro where the engine starter never disengages unless you cut battery power. It will cycle over and over again, regardless of what you press. It will finally stop when you remove power, but will be back again as soon as you turn battery back on. I have seen this error in some default-based freeware, but never on anything else... except this Metro.

 

If everything is working as it should, it's a nice plane Flies well etc. I'm not a fan of the Default GPS and refuse to use it, or anything that pretends to be something else and isn't... Is there any way to put the RealityXP GNS430 into this plane? If so, I want that!

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My biggest gripe with the J41 is it doesn't feel like you're flying an airplane with it... like you mentioned lower elevator authority.. much too low to be believable or safe IMO; poor roll rate, no apparent inertia from maneuvering... it's too 'stiff'.  Suspension of disbelief isn't there in my case.

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Just want to say really enjoying the metro so far. What I like

 

-Great VC textures (well used look), and instrument back lighting at night

 

-Nice exterior lighting

 

-Realistic interior exterior sound

 

-Never flown a metro but the flight model feels right in all phases of flight. I enjoy it slightly more than the Q400

 

-Complexity of the modeled aircraft systems. SAS SRL so forth

 

-Doesn't have an fmc but enjoy flying /a following skyvector charts. Keeps me busy in the cockpit

 

Don't likes

 

-Autopilot popping up only in 2D. Understand these planes didn't come with autopilots but some carriers like ameriflight have added them

 

 

Sort of perplexed why this plane hasn't had any notices or reviews on flightsim or avsim on their frontpages. Very well done model and looking foward to the E120 from razbam

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Razbam have confirmed that for FSX users who just have SP2 and not Acceleration (like me), the Trimble GPS unit doesn't work. They say they are currently looking at it.

 

I've also experienced the unexplained engine shutdowns.

 

That said, It's a lovely VC and when the engines are turning it's enjoyable to fly. If the bugs get fixed I'll be more than happy with it.  If they don't I'll be very disappointed - I've wanted a Metro for a long long time, 

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