FBW trim issue, fixed for SP1 or not?

[martin-w 3,234]

Wow, it really amazes me someone would park an excellent addon because of a small bug while flying other aircraft which contain far more inconsistencies compared to real world.

I guess you left your NGX in hangar too because of wrong cockpit geometry? :rolleyes:

It's not a small bug. You perceive the way it trims as normal. Real-world 777 pilots don't, I don't,  other forum members don't. It's completely wrong. hand flying is very unrealistic.

 

How do you know I fly other aircraft with more inconstancies? I certainly don't fly any other add-on's that trims completely differently to the real aircraft.

 

No my friend, I don't avoid the NGX, It's superb... and trims properly.

 

Flight simulation is about precisely that, "simulation" if our subjective sense of realism is reduced due to this issue then it's quite easy to see how one would favour an add-on in our hangars without such a significant error.

 

If you are happy with the aircraft as it is, with an unrealistic auto-trim feature that shouldn't be there, then so be it. But for me, Robin and Alec, the choice would be one of the aircraft in our hangars that has such a basic function modelled correctly.

 

 

 

 

I actually quited flying it because it is probably the most gorgeous aircraft I ever bought for FSX, well, together with the Majestic Q-400 which I also own and really enjoy now.

 

 

 

I am saving it for moments when I really have the time to put into a few detailled flights in this superb add-on. And since I acknowledge the problems with the FBW, and indeed they become very irritating, because it's not really an Airbus logic, but it isn't either the Boeing one, rather something - strange - in the middle... I then prefer to wait and be able to fully profit from an

 

updated model.

 

 

 

In the meanwhile I am making short range flights in the AXE, Q-400, and sometimes the NGX too :-)

 

 

 

 

Yes precisely. I have plenty of other excellent add-ons to play with, easy to gravitate to them when the T7 has hand flying issues due to the trim.

 

When it's fixed, I'm sure the gravitational pull in the direction of the T7 will overcome the pull from the Majestic Dash 8 Q400 and others.

[g_precentralis 191]

No my friend, I don't avoid the NGX, It's superb... and trims properly.

 

Actually, the sound of NGX trim is broken, so it's anything but superb.

 

The NGX cockpit geometry is wrong. The minimums and qnh knobs don't work correctly.

[martin-w 3,234]

I'm sure you must be in jest, but if not, those things don't compare at all in terms of severity to a trim function that's modelled as automatic, when in reality the trim is no different to any other aircraft.

 

But hey, if you're more worried about the sound of the trim wheel than a major anomaly with the FBW that shouldn't be there, that's up to you.

[jose88 50]

I purchased the 777 since it's release but not flown it yet! I don't have much time and flown shorts in NGX or AXE.

 

For a novice in the 777, how this big affect the plane? How I can reproduce it?

 

 

Enviado desde mi iPhone 5S con Tapatalk

[g_precentralis 191]

The trim wheel sound is extremely important in FSX because of lack of other references such a "tactile sense" when aircraft is out of trim. IMO, that's as severe as wrong FBW logic.

 

At the end of day, I enjoy both aircraft, fully aware of inconsistencies compared to RL.

 

For a novice in the 777, how this big affect the plane? How I can reproduce it?

You can reproduce it anytime you handfly the aircraft. Trim is awkward and it doesn't feel right, but you can fly it wit ease.

[Brian Doney 127]

The trim wheel sound is extremely important in FSX because of lack of other references such a "tactile sense" when aircraft is out of trim. IMO, that's as severe as wrong FBW logic.

 

At the end of day, I enjoy both aircraft, fully aware of inconsistencies compared to RL.

 

 

You can reproduce it anytime you handfly the aircraft. Trim is awkward and it doesn't feel right, but you can fly it wit ease.

 

 

So your thread-crapping here was entirely pointless, in other words.

 

Why am I not surprised ? Oh that's right, it's just what you do.

 

:rolleyes:

[g_precentralis 191]

So your thread-crapping here was entirely pointless, in other words.

 

Why am I not surprised ? Oh that's right, it's just what you do.

 

:rolleyes:

Said to see ad hominem arguments. From now on you are ignored. :Talk to the Hand:

[Brian Doney 127]

Not surprised by this either.

 

You see, this thread isn't about the NGX, or whatever else you should want to derail this thread with to show everyone how clever (you think) you are.

 

It is about a very specific issue with the T7, and has not, at least to this point, been answered.

 

Maybe you are having some difficulty telling the two apart ?

 

They are both Boeing's, after all.

 

Also a re-education on the context of an ad hominem attack might serve you well, as you seem confused there too. Your "argument" has no place in this thread. There is no reason to address it.

 

For anyone else reading this, I respond this way because this particular individual does this quite often. In the big-wide-internet it is known as thread-crapping, and this individual is a professional at it. I apologize for the interruption.

[jcomm 5,890]

C'mon guys, it's CHRISTMAS!!!!

 

I understand arguments from both perspectives. Alec, for instance, someone I consider as a reference in terms of oppinion for those flight simulation add-ons I decide or not to buy, and as a reference as well as a RL pilot, working on his IFR right now ( with the written exams passed already!!!! ), also quited using the 777, and I confess I had a lot of difficulty understanding what he was describing as wrong...

 

I eventually understood what he, and a few others were complaining about, and also started understanding why sometimes I was finding the aircraft strange to handfly, mostly when trying to hand fly it up to the last SID point/ intersection, or on approach.... It was not Airbus FBW, but it was not a normal pitch response either...

 

At the same time, I have had a great time tasting all of the excellent features of this great model, just as I taste everything good about the NGX, the Majestic Q-400, the Aerosoft AXE....

 

It depends on your expectations and approach to a flight simulator session. I tend to keep it simple, because I do not have the time to "professionally" fly some long haul flights including all of the flight preparation / dipstach phase, online ATC... Not that I wouldn't like to... but no time available for it :-), so, just as Lj points out, even buggy, it already has a LOT to offer of good and enjoyable ;-) and the first time Alec pointed to me the "serious" FBW bug, I really thought he was just being picky!!!!

[JRBarrett 3,038]

 

For a novice in the 777, how this big affect the plane? /quote]

 

As it stands right now, with the bug in place, the T7 is actually a little too EASY to hand fly, because at the moment, the trim takes care if itself. The bug certainly does not prevent being able to hand fly the airplane.

[wolke85 150]

I am no real world 777 pilot and just a mere flightsimming pilot, so my technical knowledge required here sure ain't sufficient at all to make any proper judgement about the trimming characteristics of this great PMDG bird compared to its real world counterpart.

But i have to agree with hose who have raised an obviously valid and proofed point here, worth to be looked into and probably adressed and fixed by PMDG in the future.

I also want to point out one thing though on the other side as well:

Just as JCOMM and others here, i have to agree, that the PMDG 777 is an amazing - yes an amazing plane - worth to be tried out and flown in the sim!

I actually also enjoy flying it manually very much - and although this may only be my personal opinion now, as others think differently here - i still dare saying that it should not be a show stopper for those of You who have this great plane in their hangars already.

Again - there is a valid and proofed point, that there may be a fix required and so i hope that PMDG will really consider having a look into this, but other than that i also think that You can and will still enjoy flying this plane and like getting familiar with all its flows and features and so on.

I hope You do not see this as an insult or so now, but i just really think, that You will also have a great time with this PMDG 777 - even besides its current FBW state!

Cheers, Christoph

 

C'mon guys, it's CHRISTMAS!!!!

 

[...]

 

It depends on your expectations and approach to a flight simulator session. I tend to keep it simple, because I do not have the time to "professionally" fly some long haul flights including all of the flight preparation / dipstach phase, online ATC... Not that I wouldn't like to... but no time available for it :-), so, just as Lj points out, even buggy, it already has a LOT to offer of good and enjoyable ;-) and the first time Alec pointed to me the "serious" FBW bug, I really thought he was just being picky!!!!

 

Hi Jcomm!

I - and i assume many others as well - also use the 777 for shorter flights.

Cargo flights for instance are sometimes just short hops and also in regards to airliner flying there are lots of shorter flights also being undertaken with the 777.

I am certainly not telling anything new here and i am sure You know as well, but just as an suggestion or an idea or impulse - why not for instance flying from Seoul to Tokyo once in between?

http://de.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL2711

 

Cheers, Christoph

[martin-w 3,234]

I think if you happen to be an individual that hits the autopilot soon after takeoff and then auto-lands, or perhaps deactivates the autopilot at 500 feet, then obviously an issue with the trim won't be noticed so much. Further more, if you happen to be unaware of how the real aircraft trims, again, you may not see anything unusual in regard to an aircraft with FBW that auto-trims. On the other hand, if you happen to be aware that there is no auto trim feature in the 777, in terms of speed changes, and that the pilot has to trim just like any other aircraft, and that it should feel like any other aircraft... then it's as plain as the nose on your face that there's a significant error.

 

So it depends on your perspective, your expectations,and your knowledge of the real aircraft.

 

As for whether we choose not to fly an add-on with such an issue, that's up to the individual, and no one can criticise anyone for that, it's their right. I'm sure there are many of you that don't fly a particular aircraft due to an issue that others are prepared to ignore.

 

I posted this hoping it would be spotted by PMDG and an answer to the question given. As usual though a mischievous individual arrives and converts the thread into an unrequired debate about others choices.

 

 

I am no real world 777 pilot and just a mere flightsimming pilot, so my technical knowledge required here sure ain't sufficient at all to make any proper judgement about the trimming characteristics of this great PMDG bird compared to its real world counterpart.

 

But i have to agree with hose who have raised an obviously valid and proofed point here, worth to be looked into and probably adressed and fixed by PMDG in the future.

 

It already has been confirned by PMDG. So you don't have to make a judgement. The judgement has already been officially made. Read my first post.

 

 

 

i still dare saying that it should not be a show stopper for those of You who have this great plane in their hangars already.

 

 

No one said it was a show stopper. it just means you will be flying an aircraft, and not experiencing an accurate trimming experience.

 

 

 

that there may be a fix required

 

 

You're not up to speed. read my first post, and the links to the threads. 

 

The bug certainly does not prevent being able to hand fly the airplane.

Nobody ever said it did.

 

Myself and others choose not to fly it because there are other aircraft in our hangar's in close competition in terms of "desirability to fly". Hence, the tendency is to gravitate toward them.

 

People need to ignore the fact that some of us aren't flying it, it's our choice, and not relevant.

[B777ER 2,484]

Same camp as martin-w. Have not flown it but maybe a couple flights. I use high end hardware and hand flying the approach is not good at all with this plane when compared to the NGX.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

 

[FLEX1978 373]

Same camp as martin-w. Have not flown it but maybe a couple flights. I use high end hardware and hand flying the approach is not good at all with this plane when compared to the NGX. Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

And once the Airbus style trim issue is fixed you are still flying it with a highly unrealistic non back driven peice of plastic strapped to a desk

 

each to their own, happy holidays

[martin-w 3,234]

And once the Airbus style trim issue is fixed you are still flying it with a highly unrealistic non back driven peice of plastic strapped to a desk

 

each to their own, happy holidays

Of course, but it's far more realistic to at least have to trim, than watching the aircraft magically do it itself when it shouldn't.

 

Using a plastic none motor driven yoke or joystick obviously doesn't negate an incorrectly modelled T7 trim. So not a sensible counter argument really.