Shared Cockpit in PMDG

[joolsd 10]

Jools... I seem to recall inviting you for shared cockpit flights well over a year ago...  LOL

 

How are you my friend?

 

Good thank you Dave.

 

I certainly haven't forgotten Dave, I am just c+@p at keeping in touch.  Even with my own family. 

 

I think , also that I like my beloved airports, and just flying the PMDG 737NGX, I am very set in my ways.  EGKK to ECCC  then EGCC to EGKK, then EGKK to EGPF and so on, almost in a superstitious OCD manner.  And this might be too boring for most people. :rolleyes:

 

I still have your email.  

[sbclark 55]

Well, I hope PMDG considers the "Shared Cockpit" concept once the 747-400 V2 is introduced and the SDK(s) of all three of the super detailed aircraft is released:

 

737 NGX

777

747-400

 

This feature would be a major breakthrough for complex A/C like these. To be able to fly with another PF or PNF would be like the real world......there is a reason you need two pilots in the cockpit.

 

However, I realize from a technical standpoint, it would be a difficult challenge as you would have to model all the switches, knobs, and other gizmos to reflect on each pilots version of the aircraft over the network. I have read over the years that the network module in FSX is not the most robust in the world, which may add to the difficulty. I would assume adding this feature would make the software code more complex, therefore impacting the frame rate. I'm sure PMDG has made some preliminary investigations into feature?

 

Perhaps P3D Version 2 network code has been cleaned up and enhanced..........making it more feasible on this platform?

 

But if anybody could do it, I believe PMDG has the expertise to make it happen. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for 2014 or 2015?

 

So far I'm loving the PMDG 737 NGX and the 777, and I look forward to the 747-400 V2............it has been a great time for PC simming! 

 

Bill Clark

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Perhaps P3D Version 2 network code has been cleaned up and enhanced..........making it more feasible on this platform?

 

From my understanding, it's not an issue of networking and the simulator.  Local networking is pretty simple though things like SimConnect and perhaps a little local network knowledge of the user (those running AS on external boxes know what I'm talking about).

 

My understanding is that it's an issue of setting up the network between the two clients (or, more accurately, one that gets set up as a server and the other as a client).  Remember that, with a shared cockpit, things need to be in absolute (or at least within a small margin of error of) synchronization.  How do you coordinate that?  What sync measures are you going to take?  How are you going to avoid flooding the network in managing that?  Is voice communication going to be inherent in that simulation; or are you going to leave it up to someone else to coordinate via Skype or a TeamSpeak server?  If it's the former, how are you going to make that possible?

 

I could be horribly off base, but my understanding is that it's not an issue directly related to the sim as much as networking/syncing in general.

[Richard McDonald Woods 168]

I agree with the technical points made by Kyle above.

 

However, my immediate reaction to software providing remote First Officer functions are centred around the flight itself.

 

I am currently enjoying the B772 by myself, but am eagerly awaiting the release of FS2Crew, so that I can have a virtual companion.

 

I feel that it would be extraordinarily difficult to find a physical 'mate' with whom to fly when I cannot currently fix a date and time at which to perform my next flight. Often when I have cleared a slot in my diary to fly, my wife suddenly announces the need for me to accompany her to the supermarket, or some such activity.

 

So I shall certainly stay with FS2Crew but wish the Desk Pilot developers every success in their work.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

 

 

I feel that it would be extraordinarily difficult to find a physical 'mate' with whom to fly

 

If one is an offline pilot, then I could see that. 

 

But just the small group that I'm a part of makes 10 to 20 or so shared cockpit flights per week. Per WEEK.  A few weeks ago we had 7 aircraft crewed up for a VATSIM event, and we would have had an eighth if we had just one more pilot for that event.

 

The reason that most people don't fly shared cockpit is because they don't know that the capability exists. I know this, because I'm contacted each week by pilots, controllers and those who watch our live streams and they tell me that they didn't know it was possible.

 

The shared cockpit community is growing, and we'll likely see a large influx of more shared cockpit pilots when the Majestic Professional is released.  Man, that aircraft is a true piece of art, and in shared cockpit it's even more incredible.

 

Hey, just imagine this....

 

A human Pilot/Copilot team sharing an aircraft and talking to each other on open mikes as if they they were actually sitting right next to one another and sharing the duties of the aircraft and the flight, both able to talk to each Air Traffic Control who by the way are also human. Those aircraft you see pushing back, on taxi or taking off?  Yep, human too.

 

My friends, it DOES NOT get any more real than that in desktop flight simulation - and it's so much fun, can actually get exciting, and sharing the experience and building memories with a great group of guys, well, like i said it's just a lot of fun.

 

Anyway, too late to speculate why it won't work, because it's been done for several years and as I said, the community is growing and growing!

 

 

Happy New Year!

[3-2-1-Now 126]

There is no technical reason why shared cockpit can't be done, and in fact it is not that hard to do, which is why I'm perplexed as to why it is taking so long for developers to get around to adding it. We have the network performance (anything better than 128 k or 0.15 Mbps is actually sufficient), and the rest is simply sending packets of data with switch and FMS data as items are interacted with.

 

Contrary to popular belief sync is not that big an issue, because you send everything as it is clicked. You're only looking at a few bytes of data for each switch, and there is no way you can click fast enough to cause problems to network bandwidth!

 

The biggest problem is sync of aircraft position, but you could just use FSX functions for that (assuming you're using the FSX flight model). The systems logic can be written outside of FSX so FSX itself does not conflict.

 

It's a shame PMDG won't take it more seriously. If they built it into the aircraft from the start, the additional effort would add at most a week worth of work to implement. The hardest part would be writing the network interface, but that should only take someone a day or two to do.

 

Here is a code sample for the curious: http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/13071/Programming-Windows-TCP-Sockets-in-C-for-the-Begin

 

If PMDG made every FMS button/switch/knob interaction available in the SDK, and provided an interface to read/write every switch/button/knob, then multicrew is ready to go!

 

Best regards,

Robin.

[sbclark 55]

Yes, I'm probably over simplifying it a bit.............I'm not a network expert......I've probably made some wild claims here in my description!!!

 

However, I have done a lot of on-line flying (combat sims) so I'm familiar with setting up servers and clients, plus we use TeamSpeak as our comm.

 

What I envision is that I can flip a switch in my cockpit, or twist a knob, or enter a flight plan into a CDU, I would expect that these changes to be reflected in the other cockpit.

 

Syncing the views may be a challenge as that can be an issue with on-line flying. I've see this issue when we do carrier OPs using Lamont Clark's freeware carrier with other carrier software to enhance the scenery. I assume it is an issue with FSX, as I don't see it as a prominent issue flying IL-2 1946? This is the reason for my comment about the FSX networking implementation limitations.

 

As to scheduling a flight with another person, I don't even see that as an issue....just crank up TeamSpeak to get the communication going, and then determine who will be providing the server and who will be the client, assuming this is feasible?

 

If this can be done the way I "fantasize" it should be done................that would be the ultimate in airline flying.

 

Bill Clark

[JB3DG 225]

Yes, I'm probably over simplifying it a bit.............I'm not a network expert......I've probably made some wild claims here in my description!!!

 

However, I have done a lot of on-line flying (combat sims) so I'm familiar with setting up servers and clients, plus we use TeamSpeak as our comm.

 

What I envision is that I can flip a switch in my cockpit, or twist a knob, or enter a flight plan into a CDU, I would expect that these changes to be reflected in the other cockpit.

 

Syncing the views may be a challenge as that can be an issue with on-line flying. I've see this issue when we do carrier OPs using Lamont Clark's freeware carrier with other carrier software to enhance the scenery. I assume it is an issue with FSX, as I don't see it as a prominent issue flying IL-2 1946? This is the reason for my comment about the FSX networking implementation limitations.

 

As to scheduling a flight with another person, I don't even see that as an issue....just crank up TeamSpeak to get the communication going, and then determine who will be providing the server and who will be the client, assuming this is feasible?

 

If this can be done the way I "fantasize" it should be done................that would be the ultimate in airline flying.

 

Bill Clark

Its really not all that hard to go outside of FSX multiplayer to do a proper shared cockpit.