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P3Dv2 + ORBX FTX Global Vector, first impressions?

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If you have a specific city, I'll be happy to do a flight around there.

 

Rob

 

Rob, may I ask you to post pictures from a couple places I know very well, both day and night time, if possible:

 

- Rome, Italy 

- Perth, WA 

- Singapore

- Milan, Italy

- Las Cruces - Alamogordo (NM, USA)

- Palermo, Italy

- Olbia, Italy

 

Omg what a list.... if you have time I would be thankful.

 

Andrea

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Interesting bit of information for users of Vector in P3D 2.0: there seem to be a lot of black patches in the scenery when you use Vector with P3D 2.0, specially during summer and fall. Orbx and Pilot's officially announced that since those black patches can not be seen in FSX, it is a P3D 2.0 problem and they have notified LM asking them to fix it: Pilot's and Orbx won't do anything about it. It's officialy NOT a Vector problem.

 

So here we go again... should the addon developer make their product P3D compatible or should LM do that...?

 

I surely don't know, if they have some kind of contractual agreement. But in principal, telling a developer to make a product compatible for an addon, seems quite strange to me. I probably would tell them to "deal with it". More than ever, if i would represent a company like Lockheed Martin. But we also don't know LM's real agenda, either.

 

But i begin to imagine the insuing chaos, if every addon developer does the same. In the end, nobody knows whose responsible, and nobody is accountable. Good luck waiting for fixes, if that happens.

 

An while they all decide who has to fix what, i'll lean back and wait to see what happens with UTX...

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there seem to be a lot of black patches in the scenery when you use Vector with P3D 2.0

So it's not just me then. I've got quite a lot of that after installing Vector, was looking for info on this. 

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So it's not just me then.

 

Correct.

 

Biggest problem for P3D 2.0 Vector users is that this will probably take quite some time to fix: usually a 3PD will fix bugs pretty quickly themselves but LM already has a lot to do so this will probably end up on the bottom of the list of things to do.

 

Come to think of it: Orbx again leaves the P3D 2.0 users in the cold, just like with the white lights... while they have been pushing it all the time. Even the video's they showed were made with P3D 2.0...! I really think they you take this matter into their own hands.

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"hope you enjoy it. I made some test flights with good results yesterday. One was in my home area with a narrow corridor . . . "

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

Thank you for expanding on your experience with PILOT'S Ultimate mesh offerings. I look forward to receiving the DVDs and experiencing the result with FTX Global Vector in FSX.

 

Regards,

 

JJ

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So here we go again... should the addon developer make their product P3D compatible or should LM do that...?

 

Jeroen, you're not thinking this out properly. Have you not ever seen a tail wag the dog? Most people think it's the other way around, that a dog wags it's tail. But they have never gotten into the "place the blame elsewhere" routine and that's when it becomes a tail wag the dog situation...

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Rob, may I ask you to post pictures from a couple places I know very well, both day and night time, if possible:

 

Certainly, may take a little time ... just got Rome done.


Come to think of it: Orbx again leaves the P3D 2.0 users in the cold

 

I fixed the black squares problem by changing my Affinity setting in Prepar3d.cfg and removing the SWAP_WAIT_TIMEOUT value I had set.  My new settings specific to my 6/12 core CPU:

 

[JOBSCHEDULER]
AffinityMask=4088
 
[DISPLAY]
TextureMaxLoad=27
 
I removed the other suggestions in the LM performance tips doc as they didn't work for me.  Here is LM's tips that caused problems for me:
 
LMPerf1.jpg
 
Rob

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Interesting screenshots, Rob! I wonder why they added all those encasements... Things would look (a lot) better without them. But even without them the roads probably are too big and obvious. If you could disable the roads, I'd buy Vector for waters maybe. Maybe because I am still unsure how the eleveation problems would turn out on my PC. I'll keep an eye on Vector but it's still not for me for now. Let's see how OpenLC turns out, also in combination with Vector.

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Interesting screenshots, Rob! I wonder why they added all those encasements...

With ORBX earlier track record of making the scenery look more realistic it is strange indeed.

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Rob

 

Do you have your hyperthreading enabled?

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Some pics (very compressed JPEGs - low quality), first shot I'll embed from my site, the other shots will be links as I don't want to fill this thread with too many pictures:

 

83e1a501a2b417bdefbe1dd07f3dbd09.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/1eff46e8ad23b5fbbd4621b9dd523ea0.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/efc11f099ffe1b8c1972da9a18324a2d.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/4c38d39c39b9caf3d2ddb6800bcd29b8.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/ef1767325419c189b5c1186096944d9d.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/a46371fde32a01f346abcf80033c6ec5.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/06f2b0f2f76ba39da5d0a6043e71f90a.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/a0752a9f13b9f10d5a1bc18e3288d813.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/50a373c0e0465639467169c6098ec21d.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/a5cb220bc30042a98e8a6a3f3fb8a418.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/70a4b4147e304e169a360fa263d42226.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/76fd78c3f66288204ae5f4fab74e6a40.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/d9bcd8d5bf7fc0d678898991851e04fe.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/76323ab7e956964c84419b7402f8620d.jpg

 

http://robainscough.com/images/1631a9f196887680bfc81a9193b1f672.jpg

 

Rob

First of all, thank'you for your help. By chance, your second screenshot depicts exactly the place where I used to live, where I live now and where I work. 

 

For now, I see abnormally wide roads with green stripes on the side, something which defeats the autogen and spoils the whole effect imho.

I also see that a few (not many tbh) main roads are missing (via della Concliliazione to name one) and that there are some placement problems with 3d objects (for instance, I can assure that you can't drive through the columns at St Peter's Square).

 

I thing that it will be better at night.

 

Thanks again Rob, this is very useful. Also, I believe that it is useful to everyone because this is no "ad-hoc" selection: it's just places I know in real life, so it's a random sample that can give everyone a good idea.

 

Bye

 

Andrea

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It's interesting to see from the screenshots how incorrect default object placement is. It's unfortunate that by accurately placing roads, railways, rivers, and coastlines really highlights these errors. It really shows how much work is ahead to get it right. In time, I'm sure we will by enlarge be quite happy with the results of Global, Vector, and Open Landclass as they mature.

I believe for the first time, we really are seeing how bad or incorrect the stock data is. It goes to show, how much developers have to break P3D/FSX to fix it and get it right. If things are getting broken, then that's good. That's progress. Broken things need to be replaced...

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Do you have your hyperthreading enabled?

 

Yes.


By chance, your second screenshot depicts exactly the place where I used to live, where I live now and where I work.

 

Pure luck, I'm not familiar with the area at all - but glad I got your home in :)

 

Agree with comments on the roads ... the green side patch are very wide, the paved road themselves might be ok size wise.  I also see a lot of long green lines (patches of nothing, no roads, no rail lines, nothing) running thru many areas (especiall SF/Bay Area) ... does anyone know what these are supposed to be??  They aren't present in real world maps.

 

Of course, when I think Vector I'm thinking primitives not raster bitmaps.... now that would be nice, true vector roads ... one can dream ;)  I have no idea how roads work in P3DV2 ... based on what I've read it's just another layer with a specific Z-order.

 

Anyone know the challenges in providing road "sets" similar to how REX 4 does things? 

 

Rob

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Agree with comments on the roads ... the green side patch are very wide, the paved road themselves might be ok size wise.  I also see a lot of long green lines (patches of nothing, no roads, no rail lines, nothing) running thru many areas (especiall SF/Bay Area) ... does anyone know what these are supposed to be??  They aren't present in real world maps.

 

Of course, when I think Vector I'm thinking primitives not raster bitmaps.... now that would be nice, true vector roads ... one can dream ;)  I have no idea how roads work in P3DV2 ... based on what I've read it's just another layer with a specific Z-order.

 

Well, if I should ever design a flight simulator, I would take vector data for roads and smooth the edges with a third order algorithm (a spline would do). The fact that both FSX and X-Plane10 have those ugly angular roads (and silly cars that curve accordingly) tells me that for some reasons it is not that simple ...

 

I'm also puzzled: what are the green side patches meant to be? 

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.....I also see a lot of long green lines (patches of nothing, no roads, no rail lines, nothing) running thru many areas (especiall SF/Bay Area) ... does anyone know what these are supposed to be??  They aren't present in real world maps.

 

 

Rob

 

This thread may assist in answering your query:

 

http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/70623-utility-lines-and-how-to-remove-them/

 

Its related to power/utility lines/cables and can be adjusted thro a fairly simple terrain.cfg edit.

 

HTH

 

Steve

 

It's interesting to see from the screenshots how incorrect default object placement is. It's unfortunate that by accurately placing roads, railways, rivers, and coastlines really highlights these errors. It really shows how much work is ahead to get it right. In time, I'm sure we will by enlarge be quite happy with the results of Global, Vector, and Open Landclass as they mature.

I believe for the first time, we really are seeing how bad or incorrect the stock data is. It goes to show, how much developers have to break P3D/FSX to fix it and get it right. If things are getting broken, then that's good. That's progress. Broken things need to be replaced...

 

Thad

 

Many of these issues emerging in Vector highlighting the fact that default FSX objects were incorrectly positioned actually appeared/showed themselves way back in 2008 with products such as Ultimate Terrain for FSX - I remember having double bridges all over and London landmarks in the Thames upon first release of UTX Europe!!

 

The Ultimate Terrain guys got it sorted soon enough with patches as I would hope that Orbx will.

 

Regards

 

Steve

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This thread may assist in answering your query:

 

http://www.orbxsyste...to-remove-them/

 

Its related to power/utility lines/cables and can be adjusted thro a fairly simple terrain.cfg edit.

 

Thanks for info Steve, but sadly that link doesn't appear to be valid?  Oh wait, it's working under Chrome ... ugh, I hate IE11.

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Rob
 
This thread may assist in answering your query:

 

That did indeed fix the power line issue/preference.  I was trying to locate the appropriate changes to make for the roads -- found many entries in the Terrain.cfg for ORBX roads but sadly my changes didn't seem to affect the road skirting (even a value of 0).  Any hints, I see it can be done (per thread link) but I'm obviously not finding the correct entry or something?

 

Thanks, Rob.

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Many of these issues emerging in Vector highlighting the fact that default FSX objects were incorrectly positioned actually appeared/showed themselves way back in 2008 with products such as Ultimate Terrain for FSX - I remember having double bridges all over and London landmarks in the Thames upon first release of UTX Europe!!

 

The Ultimate Terrain guys got it sorted soon enough with patches as I would hope that Orbx will.

Yeah I know, I had Ultimate Terrain X when I used FSX. It gave the positions of roads and rail, but unfortunately yes roads went though buildings and other object. I believe VECTOR is on the right path in the sense that perhaps in the near future there will not be a requirement for as much use of urban land class. With UTX, I disliked the vector roads clashing over top of the urban texture. If you recall, it puts roads over top of other roads and buildings within the textures. I thought it was a mess and discontinued using it. I hope that with Global, Vector, and Open Landclass, this issue will be resolved. It sure would be nice to see fairly accurate roads with proper landclass around them that doesn't clash. I'm hoping this is the beginning of this process. Fingers crossed.

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- Milan, Italy

 

2ff71d0e403539221cf2b91f01c0f585.jpg

 

Additional images here:

http://robainscough.com/images/9fc8ba5da96089bd64701f74ed3ebd57.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/fbec5f771123f7a8fd4b8b7a9d968eeb.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/f3d2051ec0fcf4d064d547f63506f700.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/5a1d4f18572ad1d4ba48a8ef701859fe.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/3ac565d1b921751221ff483ead46ace4.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/130e7e9ac298c4e6fbf951b4e9624f44.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/cd244bf4157d2f4100bc7d3e44c85295.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/eb7ef4db4991653c9089c1bcfc73c774.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/0816dea6c87c37a35a61d7e26a6ef29c.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/ad438fed794e8e608f536898f7e35284.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/a8a08c44bb2232b0ee32075eb9814813.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/670033ca3e9bb820078d1b05dc82585b.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/b814ad9cb6b0e8e860b2d101ab3a8aa7.jpg


 

 


- Singapore

 

7f2020e825253417d762eb69ded73137.jpg

 

Additional images:

http://robainscough.com/images/51505554104a07d658cb53629da081d6.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/e307ca338e85f16dcd58e48e7b1b8264.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/43f1acd2683012171b8f2b281cc42fe5.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/187112bb931b44e18c6d35eddf9089f3.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/33ef88ecaf13e1c4e6245ac090e40447.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/2d2f2570861c44eba018fe4d759b108a.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/8f24c7c722037496ffae888a8092680b.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/da25bb45e98866790801b74c65752a66.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/ada5b58b017e1b671993049e927daebe.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/73091922886ca347acca51896319c1f6.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/9c23b67f575e61099813cdfc113582ca.jpg


 

 


- Perth, WA 

 

d3ea2e8af0e994bcb57b2de79bee954f.jpg

 

Additional Images:

http://robainscough.com/images/4258cbcef50393506ff5097e7f009620.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/9a23d7d0d77da134cdcc4ab8193190a4.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/44b61af68a2ee68905de62297aae3d30.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/1c13fd00362724a2debdafbcd967c1b0.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/92e8fc2036e85fd05c720b7288d50aa8.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/bcae3208d3b59694b988f9d04a6b9c15.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/605d023c0e469756fa3cce0bdc0d97c3.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/3ab339c2282307261b954ecec4ba646e.jpg


 

 


- Las Cruces - Alamogordo (NM, USA)

 

bc5c7e0ccc930aa12b3c6d1714e7e58c.jpg

 

Additional Images:

http://robainscough.com/images/5e7b76753b57aa9ba59f3494e5107ac0.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/69207b548d98cb52d140d0de3f69299d.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/0179a34f32f4dce0c4d0d07416d10b97.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/d214c8e967ff3a70f63b5d2e1fa5b334.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/c2ed44fc62959f062852382fa8608e39.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/02b6e16d90303333f2439a5381d54405.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/9a1683f79d044bfc90ac413949867c34.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/61f2816c6b936e9e4e3acfedb406ae0a.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/690e31e754bd51742ad359d96c8fa8f9.jpg

http://robainscough.com/images/f91a44eb6b756be2ac47a61277362ebd.jpg

 

And that's about all the time I can spend on this.  Hope these help you.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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That did indeed fix the power line issue/preference.  I was trying to locate the appropriate changes to make for the roads -- found many entries in the Terrain.cfg for ORBX roads but sadly my changes didn't seem to affect the road skirting (even a value of 0).  Any hints, I see it can be done (per thread link) but I'm obviously not finding the correct entry or something?

 

Thanks, Rob.

Rob

 

Glad you got that sorted for the powerlines "snaking" through like they do!!

 

The only suggestion I may have re the hideous green skirtings is to search yout FSX folder simply for "skirting"......you should see a whole host of bmp's (for example: FTX_GB_road_divided_rural_2L_skirting_su.bmp) that I believe are what displays the green edges to roads.

 

It might be worth a shot to remove them (or disable by renaming to .off).

 

Clearly I would back everything up first but my worries with this sort of "butchering" is that a) I may forget what I have done, B) it would be entirely unsupported, and c) as/when patches get released, they may not apply correctly.

 

On top of that, I always wonder if removing files like this can cause memory leaks i.e. the sim will be looking for a file such as FTX_GB_road_divided_rural_2L_skirting_su.bmp but can't find it......this could possibly have some detrimental effect on performance.

 

It might be worth a rudimentary try....just to see if the green edges are removed even if you revert straight back - because despite what JV says in his forum, they do look out of place.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

PS.....your latest shots for A Damiani prove that as the roads thro built up areas just look daft and "ruin" the image/immersion....imo - other than that, great shots.

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It isn ever a good idea to remove a file. It might cause errors and CTDs.

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Thanks again Rob, food for thought! That green stuff around roads is THE main problem imo.

 

I also think that in the last years we all have grown more and more demanding: Google maps are better and better, and sceneries like Orbx regions and airports are nearly perfect.

 

A few years ago, we would have been happy with global + global mesh + vector, but now we expect more. It's not wrong, it's not right, it's just the way it is.

 

Andrea

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I agree, in fact in addition to the whole mesh debacle, I hate the roads so much I've gone back to UTX, which I much prefer.

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