AA Confusion with Nvidia Inspector

[stevem72 10]

Paul/Steve

 

I would be immensely grateful if either of you could answer me the following question - hopefully its very simple but i've tied myself in knots reading various threads etc and I now cannot see the wood for the trees!!

 

I set my DX10 Anti Aliasing at 2x in the Scenery Fixer/Controller - and it amends my cfg to read:

 

MultiSamplesPerPixel=2

MultiSampleQuality=0

 

I'm happy with all that so far!!

 

However, i'm totally confused now as to what to set my Nvidia Inspector AA settings at - particularly regarding the following lines in Inspector as I keep reading that Inspector should "match" the DX10 AA setting in the scenery Fixer/Controller.

 

I have the following set at:

 

Antialiasing - Transparency Multisampling - "Disabled"

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling - "2x Sparse Grid Supersampling"

 

Are these the correct or "recommended" Inspector settings when using 2x AA in the fixer or am I missing something thats probably very obvious??

 

Thanks...and Happy New Year.

 

Steve

[Paul J 349]

Take a peep at the "How-To" guide again, Steve- I just updated that whole section to reflect the inter-relationship between the Fixer, Inspector and the cfg file. 

 

You might also want to put your system specs in your profile, so that I/we/anyone can give you an answer for 2x, 4x, 8x, etc.. This will depend upon your system, the overclock, the ram timings, the GPU, the monitor(s) etc..

 

All the Best,

 

pj

[stevem72 10]

Take a peep at the "How-To" guide again, Steve- I just updated that whole section to reflect the inter-relationship between the Fixer, Inspector and the cfg file. 

 

You might also want to put your system specs in your profile, so that I/we/anyone can give you an answer for 2x, 4x, 8x, etc.. This will depend upon your system, the overclock, the ram timings, the GPU, the monitor(s) etc..

 

All the Best,

 

pj

Paul

 

I have just read...and read...and read the new updated guide and I think that it was has confused me - too much info is dangerous in my hands!!

 

I run a low end system:

 

Windows Vista 64bit Home Premium (I can hear the gasp from here!)

E8500 oc to 3.9 ghz

GTX 560ti (448 core edition) with 1.25 gb Ram (no oc on the card)

8gb "no name" Ram - running at 389MHz (so its at 1:1 FSB:DRAM) 6-6-18-24 2T

Asus P5N-D Mobo

23 inch LG IPS Monitor at native 1080p - 1920 x 1080

 

My settings are fairly conservative i.e.Autogen Density at Normal and Scenery Complexity at Dense, Locked at 30 in FSX, using Nvidia Insp 1/2 Refresh Rate for Vertical Sync

 

Bufferpools as follows:

[bUFFERPOOLS]

//UsePools=0

Poolsize=8388608             //10485760   

RejectThreshold=524288   //524288 262144 126976 98304 65536

 

Main addons are Ultimate Traffic 2 (bit of an AI junkie), Opus, FTX England and I prefer tube flying really in/out of smaller regional airports.

 

I am only too well aware my system is going to limit me, and that I'm not going to get 100fps flying the PMDG 737 out of Heathrow in heavy weather - hell i'm not even expecting to squeeze another fram out of it - I just wanted to check what my Nvidia Insp settings should be when using 2x AA in the DX10 Fixer.

 

Generally speaking, I'm fairly up to speed with the world of tweaking - its just this AA issue has confused me totally now!!

 

If you could also give me a nudge re my bufferpools settings that would be good too!!

 

Thanks again

 

Steve

[Paul J 349]

It should look like this, Steve.  

 

(You could set the Texture Filtering - Quality to "High Performance", which is the normal spot. I don't quite know why I have it set to "Quality")

 

It's not really confusing. If Inspector can't do straight AA with FSX using DX10, then FSX has to do the AA itself - right!  The settings that don't work in Inspector are "AntiAliasing - Mode" and "AntiAliasing - Setting".  That's it! All other settings are available - just not those two.

 

As you already know - all FSX settings and tweaks are set through the FSX.CFG - so this is where the AA is done.  AA within FSX is "turned on" in the GPU device settings, as below:-

 

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780.0.0]

Mode=3840x1024x32

AntiAlias=1

Anisotropic=1

 

OK - now AA is on - but how do you make "more AA" or "less AA"?

 

Well - Steve's DX10 Fixer does this for you. Page 4 of the How-To guide has pictures of four of the settings that are available, showing the DX10 Fixer setting along with the NI's setting, and the settings that the Fixer puts in the FSX.CFG. To see the four examples (including your 2x)  I've just re-edited it and re-posted it, so download it, and look at the first example.

 

In the case of choosing "2x" in the Fixer you will see that the entry it makes into the FSX.CFG is :-

 

MultiSamplesPerPixel=2

MultiSampleQuality=0

 

These represent the number of samples per pixel, (DX10 MSAA default is 4x), and a quality "level". 

 

That, in it's simplest form - is FSX's AA. Nothing to do with Inspector. In my case 4x works fine.

 

The complication, I reckon, comes with the next part:  One of the issues which plagues FSX - is "shimmering": trees, water, fences, etc.. 

 

Fortunately, this can be mitigated by the use of Transparency SuperSampling, and specifically in the Nvidia world - Sparse Grid SuperSampling, but - Inspector needs to know how many samples per pixel to match, so this (SGSS) has to be the same number as that in the MultiSamplesPerPixel line in the FSX.CFG.

 

Once you've grasped that, you're home free. Using SGSS has a small side effect, but that's covered in the Texture Filtering section of the Guide, right after the AA bit.

 

I understand your problem, Steve, as I've gone through this many, many times, and poring through many AA websites, including Steve,s blog: The subject of AA is more confusing than I care to admit, and I'm sure there are places where I'm not quite correct, but I have a moderate grasp of how it is with DX10, and so I hope this has made it just a bit clearer.

 

3.9 gig feeding a 560Ti - your BP should probably be this:-

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=0

 

But you could try:

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=1

RejectThreshold=262144

 

or..

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=1

RejectThreshold=524288

 

I reckon one of those should speed up your day!   :lol:

 

Ask again if you're still puzzled, and we will try a different tack - ok!

 

All the best,

 

pj

 

Edit: That E8500.... I'm sure it could do more that 3.9...........  B)

[RWFeldman 159]

 

 

MultiSampleQuality=0

 

So, Steve what is this? Does it change or need to be changed or.? :wacko:

[Paul J 349]

MSQ=0 is a quality level, Rendi, set by the Fixer when you select "No AA", "2x" or "4x".

 

Fully described (now) in the How-To guide!

 

All the best,

 

pj

[stevem72 10]

It should look like this, Steve.  

 

(You could set the Texture Filtering - Quality to "High Performance", which is the normal spot. I don't quite know why I have it set to "Quality")

 

It's not really confusing. If Inspector can't do straight AA with FSX using DX10, then FSX has to do the AA itself - right!  The settings that don't work in Inspector are "AntiAliasing - Mode" and "AntiAliasing - Setting".  That's it! All other settings are available - just not those two.

 

As you already know - all FSX settings and tweaks are set through the FSX.CFG - so this is where the AA is done.  AA within FSX is "turned on" in the GPU device settings, as below:-

 

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780.0.0]

Mode=3840x1024x32

AntiAlias=1

Anisotropic=1

 

OK - now AA is on - but how do you make "more AA" or "less AA"?

 

Well - Steve's DX10 Fixer does this for you. Page 4 of the How-To guide has pictures of four of the settings that are available, showing the DX10 Fixer setting along with the NI's setting, and the settings that the Fixer puts in the FSX.CFG. To see the four examples (including your 2x)  I've just re-edited it and re-posted it, so download it, and look at the first example.

 

In the case of choosing "2x" in the Fixer you will see that the entry it makes into the FSX.CFG is :-

 

MultiSamplesPerPixel=2

MultiSampleQuality=0

 

These represent the number of samples per pixel, (DX10 MSAA default is 4x), and a quality "level". 

 

That, in it's simplest form - is FSX's AA. Nothing to do with Inspector. In my case 4x works fine.

 

The complication, I reckon, comes with the next part:  One of the issues which plagues FSX - is "shimmering": trees, water, fences, etc.. 

 

Fortunately, this can be mitigated by the use of Transparency SuperSampling, and specifically in the Nvidia world - Sparse Grid SuperSampling, but - Inspector needs to know how many samples per pixel to match, so this (SGSS) has to be the same number as that in the MultiSamplesPerPixel line in the FSX.CFG.

 

Once you've grasped that, you're home free. Using SGSS has a small side effect, but that's covered in the Texture Filtering section of the Guide, right after the AA bit.

 

I understand your problem, Steve, as I've gone through this many, many times, and poring through many AA websites, including Steve,s blog: The subject of AA is more confusing than I care to admit, and I'm sure there are places where I'm not quite correct, but I have a moderate grasp of how it is with DX10, and so I hope this has made it just a bit clearer.

 

3.9 gig feeding a 560Ti - your BP should probably be this:-

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=0

 

But you could try:

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=1

RejectThreshold=262144

 

or..

 

[bufferPools]

UsePools=1

RejectThreshold=524288

 

I reckon one of those should speed up your day!   :lol:

 

Ask again if you're still puzzled, and we will try a different tack - ok!

 

All the best,

 

pj

 

Edit: That E8500.... I'm sure it could do more that 3.9...........  B)

 

Paul

 

Thank you for that....it does confirm what I thought was correct and do have my settings at i.e. 2x AA in DX10 Fixer and 2x SGSS in Inspector.

 

I am checking this AA issue out out now as i have only in the last week purchased the LG 23in monitor.....and the difference in image over my battered old 19inch is huge - the AA settings now seem to matter!!

 

I was set to pull the trigger b4 Xmas on an i7 4770k, 780ti, Asus Sabertooth Mobo, 8gb 2400 DDR3, Windows 7 etc in readiness for P3D v2 (just over £1600) with FTX Global/Vector etc etc - thats all on hold now though after seeing the hugely mixed reaction and the fact P3D v2 "out the box" doesn't seem to be the Flightsim holy grail that certain devs may have led us to believe......not just yet anyway!!!

 

Unfortunately, the 2x SGSS in Inspector seems to add a fair hit to my low end system, with very little in return for image quality i.e. I don't see a big (if any) increase in image quality, or reduction in shimmering with 2x SGSS against having it set to Off/Multisampling in Inspector - i'll probably just set it to Off/Multisampling in Inspector and take the extra frames over the minimal shimmering reduction.

 

I have tried all of those BP settings over time and now tend to switch between UsePools=0.....on the basis that my card should be better than my dual core and should be able to deal with everything that the proc can throw at it (at least thats my understanding of how that should work i.e my dual core is my biggest bottleneck) and UsePools=1 with RJ=524288.

 

Re the E8500.....i've just dropped back to 3.7ghz as the 3.9ghz was showing some signs of instability (age I guess) but I've tried every which way to get it to 4+ghz but can't.

 

Admittedly i am using auto settings for the voltage as I'm not too comfortable with messing with those....but every time i have tried to "bump" it over that "magical" 4....it becomes unstable with lock ups, boot failures etc. and personally, I think its my cheap and nasty memory thats holding me back.

 

I suppose i could just go for it......if I fry my current system it then I could get the new one......and nark the missus a bit more!!!

 

Thanks

again.

 

Steve

[Paul J 349]

:lol:

 

Yeah I hear you.

 

O/c'ing - I don't let any of the important voltages run on Auto - that's asking for trouble.

 

 

I have tried all of those BP settings over time and now tend to switch between UsePools=0.....on the basis that my card should be better than my dual core and should be able to deal with everything that the proc can throw at it (absolutely!) (at least thats my understanding of how that should work i.e my dual core is my biggest bottleneck) and UsePools=1 with RJ=524288.

 

 

"my dual core is my biggest bottleneck) so I should use "UsePools=0" .   ie - let the GPU control the buffering - not FSX.

 

As long as you're having fun!

 

Best,

 

pj