Level D Boeing 767 SID/Stars Question?

[rhodges 6]

I notice in the file library that there seems to be a marked increase of Sid/Star posts for various airports unique to the Level D in comparison to prior similar FMC capable payware aircraft. Are these just departures and arrivals that were left out of the database for out of the way locations? Certainly, the LD database includes SIDs and Stars????Just curious concerning this issue.Any clarification before I buy this bird?Thanks:RTH

[Guest danowat]

The LDS 767 does not include any, or at the very most a handfull of, SID's and STAR's.I believe the reason is that this is a completely new way of writing the database (something about conditional waypoints) and as such the existing databases that are used in the FMC's of other planes cannot be used.I for one am glad about this, as it is entirely possible to write SID's and STAR's yourself, using conditional waypoints etc, and save them for later use, this is what you are seeing appear in the library.Dan.

[rhodges 6]

Thanks Dan:This would be fine if one can always pick and choose exactly what is desired. I do see a problem relative to online flying and the like though unless one want to do a heap of writing. The other end may not have what I have if it is not an existing departure or arrival, plus ATC may change to another. Compatibility with FSNAV is also a question in my mind without personal editing.For example, especially for VatSim purposes, I have all of the SIDs and Stars catalogued for all of the SimFlyer and Fly Tampa locations (Plus quite a few more along with routing and approach plates). It takes quite a while to do that even when someone else has already composed them and all that is required is to download and print. I dread the thought of having to go from scratch to originate all of them.Again, thanks for the information. I will have to think on this a bit before I bite.Respectfully:RTH

[Guest danowat]

"I do see a problem relative to online flying and the like though unless one want to do a heap of writing"The amount of writing needed for many SID/STAR's is actually pretty small, alot of ones I have done are nothing more than,Fly RWY HDG till xNMTurn to XDEGFly XDEG till XftThen fly to NAVAIDIf you have the relevent charts writing a SID and STAR at each end takes no more than a few mins, plus once you have done it once you never need to do it again for that particular airport.Dan.

[rhodges 6]

True Dan, however, some major airports have a mess of Sids and Stars. What I fear is online, ATC directing me to something not in hand. I usually feel that I have a full deck prepared.It has taken me days to compile what I have only from traditional downloads (Three large loose leaf Notebooks) and this only composes of a relatively small number of airports. Even so, I conceed relative to your point that minor editing is sometimes necessary to avoid 180 degree turns on final if you are not relying on ATC. (And even then at times).I normally plan to break off my approaches (and Sids where applicable) to the major waypoint where ATC istructions are indicated to follow or preceed. This is really closer to reality. About the only time real world that one might have to rely on the FMC to touchdown would be with a loss of comminication if my understanding is correct. (Making a bunch of piers and passengers very angry). (OK heavy guys, flame me! I don't fly your birds RW).Even so, there are multiple possibilities which would be possible from ATC on the fly where prior compositon not prepared would seem to be a severe ommision to me. To me, this is the reason real world such a large investment is necessary to have a full deck of documentation (yea, I know, Sim is not real world, - OR is it for some?)This by no means rules out what appears to be a fine offering and I do not mean to sound like I am bad mouthing the 767LD, but it is a consideration relative to options (to me). I will do a bit of posterior scratching before reaching a purchase decision (probably minor).Thanks:RTH 1585368CFI

[Guest Eagletail]

Forgive me if I'm a little sidetracked here, but what about using programs like FSBuild - or similar navigation software? Do these produce SIDS/STARS that can be used with the LDs? And is it possible to make use of the SIDS/STARS as found in Flight1's ATR 72-500 and PMDG's 737NG series?

[Guest danowat]

You can certainly export a flightplan containing SID/STAR from FSBuild and import it into the LDS FMC.No, you cant use SID/STAR from any other addon.Dan.

[Guest Eagletail]

Thanks, Dan, I guess I wasn't too far off with my assumptions. I'll continue using FSBuild if I decide to purchase Level D.

[Guest comaximus]

There are no new TP to lvld767. One option is to make your flightplan in FSCommander, and export it to lvld FMC, or write in the WP for that SID/STAR manually under LEGS.Anyway, it seems that the guys at LVLD, don't think this is their responability to provide TP's. It's a fuggin shame! I'm getting yelled at on VATSIM for not having the right or uptodate TP's, and there is not much to do about it. ArghhWhen PMDG comes with the 737 it's bye bye LVLD.

[WarpD 824]

>There are no new TP to lvld767. One option is to make your>flightplan in FSCommander, and export it to lvld FMC, or write>in the WP for that SID/STAR manually under LEGS.>Anyway, it seems that the guys at LVLD, don't think this is>their responability to provide TP's. It's a fuggin shame! I'm>getting yelled at on VATSIM for not having the right or>uptodate TP's, and there is not much to do about it. Arghh>When PMDG comes with the 737 it's bye bye LVLD.If you're getting 'yelled at' on VATSIM then the problem lies with the controller, not LVLD.

[cshark172 20]

PMDG doesn't provide updated procedures either, so it won't fix your problem. If you want to be up to date you will need to purchse Navigraph FMS data. They are currently working on updates for LevelD.Kylehttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[ClaudeF 8]

They are readily available. The two major sources are:http://planepath.com/html/lds.htmlTerry Yingling's site and he also has a forum here on AVSIM, "Terminal Procedures". His TPs primarily cover the US and UK.http://www.navdata.at/ Maintained by Richard Stefan.For a variety of reasons, the updated AIRAC cycles, are no longer free. They are available at Navigraph:http://www2.navigraph.com/www/default.aspSeems I've acquired over 1,500 TPs (they are in xml format) and can be used in either FS9 or FSX for the Level-D.Claude

[Guest comaximus]

>PMDG doesn't provide updated procedures either, so it won't>fix your problem. If you want to be up to date you will need>to purchse Navigraph FMS data. They are currently working on>updates for LevelD.>>Kyle>I hvae noticed they (whom ever that may be) are working on it, but it should in my opinion been out there long time ago. How long time can it take?I bougth LVLD the first day possible, and thought someone would be dedicated to provide TPs. The other addons get it, why not LVLD?

[Guest comaximus]

I have got no problem about buying FMS data, and I do. I make the flightplan with FSCommander with SID/STAR, and type in the SID/STAR waypints/fixes to LVLD FMC manually. It isn't a big hassle, but someone should have come up with a way to transscript (?nice word though?) AIRAC/TP to a format LVLD can handle by now.And who are "THEY" who are currently working on it? Is it Navigraph og LevelDSim?And by the way.. PMDG HAVE updated TPs on all products via navigraph (so they say anyway), but PMDG haven't a 737 for FSX yet. The 747 is just not my cup of tea.Someone, Navigraph, LevelD or who the f*** responsible, should use some resources to get this right. Ofcourse it will cost money, but how many ###### customers will they have? Spend before you start loosing.

[Guest]

no, those procs are not provided by PMDG. Navigraph provides them FOR PMDG.Just as they promised to start providing them for the LDS as well, but so far haven't.I don't have a problem with Navigraph charging for their service, they have to recover their cost of operation after all.I think what people (understandably) have problems with is aircraft addon makers not providing at least a full set of data so people can get started using their products, instead effectively forcing those customers to spend more money elsewhere.Many (most, probably) users couldn't care less about having the very latest data at all times, they just want enough data to be able to fly anywhere they want.That means a snapshot of the airway data and a full set of airport and terminal procedure data should be included with a newly purchased aircraft.This data doesn't have to be current, as long as it is complete and works with the data on which the FS version to which the product is targeted is based.That effectively means 2002 data for FS2004 and 2005 data for FSX (I think, +/- a year there for both of them).This is especially critical if you're going to be selling the product on CD, as the majority of highstreet customers doesn't want to (and often aren't able to) buy the additional data (or get it for free if they're lucky) somewhere online (at a location the aircraft addon manufacturer doesn't even provide in their documentation).