A/T During Flare

[FishermanIvan 110]

Don't turn off the flight director, you'll want it on should you need to activate G/A. Just ignore it once you're closing in on the threshold as the ILS "cone" becomes too small to actually follow at this point. Your loc and G/S readings will be way too sensitive below around 100ft AGL (roughly).

 

Plenty of pilots deactivate the FDs when they're flying in nice weather.  Just fly the missed as published, you don't always need the electronics telling you what to do.

 

I've been in the Concorde for a couple weeks now... No FD guidance in that thing on departure, and it's quite the handful.  Great fun though.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Plenty of pilots deactivate the FDs when they're flying in nice weather. Just fly the missed as published, you don't always need the electronics telling you what to do.

 

You mind providing a source for that?  Additionally, why would you fly the publised missed on a nice day?  Published missed is an instrument procedure.  If it's nice (so much so that you're going to kill the F/Ds for some random and unknown reason), you'd just go around and be resequenced.

 

 

 

I've been in the Concorde for a couple weeks now... No FD guidance in that thing on departure, and it's quite the handful. Great fun though.

 

You might want to do the tutorial a few times, then.  There's a pitch guidance bar, and then the F/D picks up very soon after departure.  Sure, it's not as "involved" of an F/D as some of the newer stuff, but to say "no guidance" couldn't be further from the truth.

[FLEX1978 373]

If you did switch of the FD's (it's called a Raw data approach) they will automatically pop up once you commence a go-around.

 

I do know raw data approaches are done a lot in training. Can't see why it would be done in normal line operations on the T7

 

With that in mind I do know guys that occasionally perform raw data take off's and landings on the bus if weather permits. Will ask how common (or if allowed) on the 777 fleet.

 

Edit - brains not switched on, FD off approaches must be allowed on the 777. Like the A3xx it will force the A/T to speed, good for NPA's. If we take Asiana for example, with FD off, the A/T wouldn't have gone to Hold and remained at idle.

 

I'm out at the moment, will check into it properly a little later.

[tecboy99 0]

Okay, So I did a few CAT III ILS approaches. Then a several CAT II ILS approaches with A/T on all the way down. The throttles did idle out at the correct time. But, as martin-w said, the throttles do take several seconds to close up. After some practice, I can already tell my landings are getting much better. Right on the piano keys B). Thanks for all the help gentlemen! 

[James Bennett 52]

Now try a visual approach!

[tecboy99 0]

Now try a visual approach!

 

Now, That I can do!

[Fabo 213]

 

 

You mind providing a source for that?  Additionally, why would you fly the publised missed on a nice day?  Published missed is an instrument procedure.  If it's nice (so much so that you're going to kill the F/Ds for some random and unknown reason), you'd just go around and be resequenced.

 

I am going to support Ryan on that, plenty folks turn the F/Ds off in good weather. Especially for visual approaches, FD can be distracting. Anyways unless SOPs tell you otherwise, it's up to the pilots preference. I've seen people leave the bars off for the whole flight, flying raw for proficiency sake, letting AP catch up only as NON-RNAV becomes unreliable.

 

About the go-around, there are some good reasons to fly published missed even on good weather day. Published missed approaches would make sure to separate you from arrival stream, and can act as noise abaitment procs as well. ATC can pick you up when clear of conflicting or noise sensitive area.

[tcas_climb 45]

Thanks for the explanation on the speed FLEX1978 (I apologize for not using your name I'm using my phone browser and it doesn't show signature)

 

Fabo (again apology for not using your real name) I also can see why turning the FDs off especially when on a npa approach and transition to a visual approach can cause problems, as FLEX1978 said.

 

Also flying an instrument missed approach procedure especially when you were on an npa/PA can assure terrain clearance, take NZQN for example.

[FLEX1978 373]

Received the reply below from a 777 Captain. Question was regarding use of FD on approach & confirming A/T reverts to speed... This is only one company's SOP! - not a blanket statement for all operators...

 

 

 

"You do it at your peril ! Not forbidden , but last thing u want to do after a long night. So leave it to the automatics till u get the "1000 stable " call . Stay out of trouble that way. These days we do more raw data stuff in sim , which is good. Normally take a/t out as well , but if left in stays in spd mode"

[G550flyer 1,013]

In real world,the only time I've flown with the FD off is during VFR pattern work or in the SIM.  Even during visual approaches, if available, I keep the ILS or RNAV loaded and tuned up. Even when flying visual, i like to stay as close to the normal glide path as possible so i use the FD and ILS/RNAV as a reference(habit from flying heavies). Even on non precision approaches, we keep the FD on and load the approach in the FMS. Once again, this helps keep you close to the normal glide path. Once visual, you're not spending much time on instruments anyway so its easy to ignore the FD if it's a concern. During VFR patterns, it can be annoying when the FD is commanding a turn as you fly the pattern. 

[FLEX1978 373]

Hey Rick,

 

What happens to the A/T on your aircraft if you ignore the FD pitch commands? on the bus this can cause huge issues. Alpha floor activation.

[tecboy99 0]

I override and cut the throttles at 20ft (F1 shortcut) - done a lot in the real world too. They do retard to idle pretty slow at times coming from a high approach N1. 

 

Remember that the 77L lands a bit faster than it should when you're around 215t and below with Flap 30 due to the 137 knot restriction on the GE90-110/5B engine. I use Flap 25 a lot now which averages 145 knots with wind correction and flies a bit better. When Flap 25 is 140 knots and below- I wouldn't bother using Flap 30 if the LDA is acceptable and not an autoland. 

Can you elaborate on the speed restriction? 

[FLEX1978 373]

137knot vref floor. It is due to Vmca, we discussed this on the first page.

Vmca - minimum controllable airspeed in the event of an engine failure. If you

Go below that speed the airflow will not give you enough control authority.

 

Regards

[tecboy99 0]

Don't know how I didn't see that, Thanks!

[G550flyer 1,013]

What happens to the A/T on your aircraft if you ignore the FD pitch commands? on the bus this can cause huge issues. Alpha floor activation.

Greetings Flex!

 

The G550 A/T performs pretty much the same as every other aircraft I've flown. I have 2 speed modes, auto and manual. In auto, the speed will automatically change based on climb/descent schedule, flap settings, distance from arrival/departure airport, STAR/SID and approach. In manual mode, it maintains the selected speed in the speed window(usually used for approach to keep from slowing when flaps are configured). In both modes, the A/T will adjust to maintain speed regardless if i ignore the FD. I get a Power message on the PFD if the A/T can't maintain the speed. In FLCH and VFLCH, the A/T will stay in idle/climb regardless if I ignore the FD. I will get a Power message on the PFD if the speed increases during the descent while in idle or the speed decreases while in climb mode.  With the A/T off, they will remain off regardless off FD inputs but the speed lolipop will display on the HUD giving the throttle position to place the throttles to maintain target speed. If I'm at 40,000ft or above and the aircraft senses  a cabin press low(8000 to 14500ft cabin based on landing airport) the aircraft will enter emergency descent mode make a 90 degree turn and descend to 15,000ft. The A/T will turn on if off, and retard to idle as the aircraft pitches down to VMO. This is the only time the A/T will automatically turn on.

 

Not the safest, but I love aircraft with the proper mix of manual and automation. The DC10 was perfect with this mix. When ever the jet did something strange, a couple of clicks and you are in full control.