Malaysian Flight 370

[goates 576]

 

 

When the first Dukane pingers were introduced, I am not sure we were smart enough to know that.

 

Perhaps I am remembering things wrong. I'll have to see if I can find the link talking about it again. It could have been more to do with ambient noise levels in the ocean, which I'm sure we've known about for quite a while now.

 

 

I can count maybe three incidents in deep water... Both Air India disasters and Air France in the mid-Atlantic.

 

Don't forget South African Airways 295. One of its recorders was recovered from over 16,000'.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

 

 

Don't forget South African Airways 295. One of its recorders was recovered from over 16,000'.

 

I wasn't involved with that SAR, but thanks for reminding me. I don't spend anytime on Wikipedia.

[dmwalker 603]

 

 

Thrust asymmetry compensation, it will partially trim out asymmetry on the ground, in flight it will provide full trim in the event of a loss of thrust or full failure of one of the engines.

I just want to be sure I understand correctly. Do you mean that TAC fully compensates for the asymmetric thrust when one engine fails?

[FLEX1978 373]

I just want to be sure I understand correctly. Do you mean that TAC fully compensates for the asymmetric thrust when one engine fails?

Yes, full compensation in flight. Only partial compensation on the ground,  this is so the pilot can quickly identify which engine has failed during a critical phase (At or near V1)

[dmwalker 603]

Yes, full compensation in flight. Only partial compensation on the ground,

The reason I ask is because, during a recent CNN discussion about what would happen if MH370 were flying on autopilot and fuel ran out and one engine failed first, Mitch in the Ufly simulator said the TAC would keep it on course. Les Abend, the 777 pilot, started to disagree but didn't have a chance to explain because they were already being moved on to the next question.

 

When I checked FCOMv2, it just has the blanket statement that TAC does not fully compensate for the failed engine.

 

Where can I read in more detail about TAC providing full compensation?

[zmak 331]

black box may have been found!! PM to announce....

 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/04/11/12/53/mh370-black-box-may-have-been-found

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

black box may have been found!! PM to announce....

 

I think they are on to it but to say they are 'found' is a bit premature. Media has always been too quick with these press releases. 

 

Until an ROV physically picks one up a Black Box is not found. Still a lot more work to do.

[mcbellette 145]

Lucky the plane didn't go down near Cairns. Got a Cat-5 cyclone there right now with winds exceeding 300km/h. Wouldn't be any searching being done with that around!

[psolk 3,040]

black box may have been found!! PM to announce....

 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/04/11/12/53/mh370-black-box-may-have-been-found

Despite the news grasping for viewers with sensational headlines AT BEST they narrowed down the search area to a few kilometers. Once they had the position of AF 447 it took TWO YEARS to actually recover the black boxes... To claim they "found them" is ludicrous and sensationalist reporting at its best!

[Captain_Barfbag 31]

 

 

Once they had the position of AF 447 it took TWO YEARS to actually recover the black boxes

 

They never had black box pings from AF 447.  So, their search area was much larger, and for most of that 2 years no active searching was going on.  The Woods Hole team only took a week of actual searching with their side-scan sonar to locate the wreckage.  After that, it took another month before the recorders were brought to the surface.

 

 

When the first Dukane pingers were introduced,

 

Thanks for all of the great info, Tom.  Do you happen to know how often the boxes send out a ping?  When we hear that they've detected "2 pings," would that be over a period of seconds, minutes or perhaps hours if they got two consecutive pings?

[n4gix 4,947]

I understand the rate is one ping per second. At least that's what the audio clip from one set of detected 'pings' demonstrated.

[mabe54 17]

They never had black box pings from AF 447. 

 

From day three I kept saying: Call the Americans! Get their Navy. They are always at hand and happy to help. Don't loose that month. But no, they were not called in time.

 

Almost two years later they finally call and the Alucia came into the horizon. I tracked her sea voyage down all the way from Seattle and through the Panama Canal to the meeting place in the Atlantic. 

 

She found AF447 alright.

 

Note: The French did all the mathematical calculations out of almost nothing so that Alucia could do her magic. It was long and riveting but I wouldn't want to go over another one again.

 

Let's anticipate that after we find MH370 black boxes severe sadness will hit us yet again.

 

Cheers,

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/05/08/magazine/08plane2/08plane2-articleLarge-v2.jpg

 

Cheers,

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

From day three I kept saying: Call the Americans! Get their Navy. They are always at hand and happy to help. Don't loose that month. But no, they were not called in time.

 

This is the sovereignty of nations.....The USA is no different as there was a Canadian Navy Supply Ship off the shores of New Orleans and ready to help during Hurricane Katrina that was refused.

 

Reality is there are rules about allowing a foreign Armed Force into your territories as you can't just let them in just like that. This is why the Canadian Navy was not allowed to make a landing in New Orleans to help. USA has rules about letting a foreign Armed Force onto land. Brazil is no different either.

 

Civil Organisations is different and can move in much faster during a disaster. Each nation has their protocols and their sovereignty must be respected.

[KingGhidorah 209]

On CNN today, for what it's worth, they said something like "Search area down to 18,000 sq miles".  But something doesn't make sense for me.  I have a layman's understanding of the sound ducts and all, and I know that sounds can sometimes carry quite far, but this implies a radius of around 75 miles.  If the range of detection of the ping is said to be about 2 or 3 miles, and they are pretty certain that that is what they are hearing, then why still such a large area?  Do they really think the pinger(s) could be that far away from a given point of detection? 

[zmak 331]

On CNN today, for what it's worth, they said something like "Search area down to 18,000 sq miles".  But something doesn't make sense for me.  I have a layman's understanding of the sound ducts and all, and I know that sounds can sometimes carry quite far, but this implies a radius of around 75 miles.  If the range of detection of the ping is said to be about 2 or 3 miles, and they are pretty certain that that is what they are hearing, then why still such a large area?  Do they really think the pinger(s) could be that far away from a given point of detection?

Yes apparently the ping can travel incredibly long distances Laterally