Malaysian Flight 370

[vc10man 732]

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah

And yet his sister was on the BBC website and World Service News protesting that her brother was an utmost professional who came from a poor village and all he wanted to be was a pilot and it was so hurtful that suspicious fingers were being pointed towards her brother. What's that about blood being thicker......

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36870116......

[odourboy 1,289]

Another man's theory on this tragedy:

 

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/10/20/61262/

[N562Z 4]

Slow but steady loss of pressurization would eventually render all passengers and crew unconscious from hypoxia if it went undetected, after which time the plane would continue on course, on autopilot, at cruise altitude until it ran out of fuel and eventually descended into the Indian Ocean. Much like what happened to Payne Stewart's private jet years ago.

[michal 44]

The problem with this "pressurization" theory is obvious - it could not explain at least 3 turns the aircraft made after it departed its original flight plan. The theory would be believable if the aircraft kept steady on its original flight plan (same as Payne Stewart's jet). The turns were clearly deliberate and spaced 20-40 minutes apart.

[MarkW 1,491]

The problem with this "pressurization" theory is obvious - it could not explain at least 3 turns the aircraft made after it departed its original flight plan. The theory would be believable if the aircraft kept steady on its original flight plan (same as Payne Stewart's jet). The turns were clearly deliberate and spaced 20-40 minutes apart.

 

I mostly agree with you here, however, there is a very slim chance that slow onset of hypoxia made the crew member act irrationally and resulted in the turns.... a long shot but a possibility.

[G550flyer 1,013]

Slow but steady loss of pressurization would eventually render all passengers and crew unconscious from hypoxia if it went undetected, after which time the plane would continue on course, on autopilot, at cruise altitude until it ran out of fuel and eventually descended into the Indian Ocean. Much like what happened to Payne Stewart's private jet years ago.

It really all depends when it comes to hypoxia. A loss of pressure doesn't all ways mean a complete loss of pressure.You can have a higher than normal cabin altitude and end up in a hypoxia situation.

 

Back when I flew in the AirForce, we were required to attend physiology training associated with aviation every so often. This also included a flight in an altitude chamber for demonstrations. One would take at place at 10,000ft with dim lighting. After breathing for a while with no oxygen, they hand out color wheels and ask you to count the colors. They have you go to 100% oxygen and notice how brighter the chamber becomes and more colors appear on the wheel. It shows that eyes are the first to suffer. They take you higher and have you remove the oxygen mask again and perform some math problems. After a while, you go back on oxygen and check your math. They have you notice the high error rate displaying the cognitive effects. Lastly they take you up to 25,000ft. They have everyone remove their mask until symptoms are noticed so that you have an idea when you are being subjected to hypoxia. They always have one volunteer to stay off oxygen and put a children's puzzle together. Quickly you notice they attempt to put blocks into circle positions and have great difficulty. By the time they realize the effects, they are twitching and zoned out and can rarely put on the mask without assistance from the observer.

 

To me, that experience shows that it is very possible to have a partial failure of the pressurization system and have it go unnoticed. I've had other crew members say they've felt loopy or strange while flying, glanced at the cabin altitude and noticed that it was between 10,000 and 11,000ft. Just below the cabin altitude warning set point. The automatic system was having some issues. Having the cabin hang in that region for long periods of time can lead to confusion, causing you make errors before becoming totally hypoxic.

 

As altitude increases, your total time of useful consciousness decreases. Rapid decompression can be violent, loud and noticeable from the ears and fogging/chill during expansion. The insidious, slow partial loss of pressurization is the most dangerous. Unless you can readily notice the early signs of hypoxia from your personal symptoms, you can easily miss it once cognitive breakdown occurs. Not to say this was the case, but in the realm of possibilities.

[tf51d 284]

I still think it was a attempted terrorist hijacking (For the plane) "My theory was that it was a terrorist act. I think the original goal was to capture the plane for a future 9/11 style attack. The reason I think this is this crew is known to at least on one occasion  let people into the cockpit in flight, that may have happened again. There was a point early on where radar showed the plane making erratic altitude changes, this could have been the point of a struggle to take control of the aircraft. I think then the hijackers would have cut passenger oxygen supply preventing any further resistance, I believe they then  flew the plane west probably towards Yemen, which would be right in line with the dismissed sightings over the Maldives, my guess would be to Socotra Airport, which looking on Google Earth appears to be a deserted field with a runway large enough to land a 777 and there doesn't appear to be anything around it for miles. Looks like an easy place they can fly the plane into without  being seen, at least as a stopping off point to refuel. I think they just ran out of fuel before they got there, and cashed into the Western Indian Ocean, with some debris  eventually coming ashore on the Eastern Coast of Africa. This area is also in range of of the satellite that picked up the pings, and the time it would take to fly to that area, matches the pings almost exactly."

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I think the turns were too calculating to be a random act due to hypoxia. I believe whoever had control was avoiding radar intentionally. I always figured suicide by pilot and in doing so was creating the greatest aviation mystery since Amelia Earhart with the disappearance of a 777. It was very calculating.

 

I think if it was for terrorism they would have carried out the mission right away, not the theory of hiding a 777 and making all those people disappear for a future mission....The simplest maneuvers would have been the best and as quick as possible. This plane is not hiding somewhere.

 

I live in the South Pacific and the 777 is minuscule compared to the oceans down here. I believe it was soft landed and the flaperons and a few other things broke off leaving it mostly intact, only to sink to the bottom of the ocean. 

[fluffyflops 1,858]

I still think it was a attempted terrorist hijacking (For the plane) "My theory was that it was a terrorist act. I think the original goal was to capture the plane for a future 9/11 style attack. The reason I think this is this crew is known to at least on one occasion  let people into the cockpit in flight, that may have happened again. There was a point early on where radar showed the plane making erratic altitude changes, this could have been the point of a struggle to take control of the aircraft. I think then the hijackers would have cut passenger oxygen supply preventing any further resistance, I believe they then  flew the plane west probably towards Yemen, which would be right in line with the dismissed sightings over the Maldives, my guess would be to Socotra Airport, which looking on Google Earth appears to be a deserted field with a runway large enough to land a 777 and there doesn't appear to be anything around it for miles. Looks like an easy place they can fly the plane into without  being seen, at least as a stopping off point to refuel. I think they just ran out of fuel before they got there, and cashed into the Western Indian Ocean, with some debris  eventually coming ashore on the Eastern Coast of Africa. This area is also in range of of the satellite that picked up the pings, and the time it would take to fly to that area, matches the pings almost exactly."

 

 

you cant beat an unqualified spotter can you...

 

thats right just land it at an airport and refuel it...... 

 

couple of questions mr expert... at an deserted airfield...

 

a.  how are you going to refuel it...theres no fuel there...

b.  which what equipment are you going to use for this magic fuel

c.  oh and yeah and how are you going to pay for 80 tonnes of fuel... just ask the local farmer if he take a fuel carnet or a shell card from the flight deck...

 

there really are some idiots, go back to watching movies ... what do you think happens at an airline when they divert into an unmanned station, (thats one with out a contract for handling , fuel and engineering..)

 

The first thing they do is ask for payment by invoice, credit card or PO number.  trust me ive spent 20 years of my life organizing this sort of stuff... your talking rubbish 

[Jim Young 2,356]

 

 

there really are some idiots,

 

There ya go again!  Calling one of your fellow members an idiot or perhaps you were indicating everyone in this topic is an idiot. Not polite!    I think everyone has a right to post there thoughts and theories.  Everyone will most likely be wrong regarding this missing flight and, even more likely, we will never know the truth.  We have all this technology in space, in the seas, in the air, and on the ground but we will most likely never know the truth. 

[HighBypass 2,339]

For now I share Jim's opinion.In years to come we may find the wreckage...

 

Pete you have first hand (20 years worth!) experience of flight planning/dispatch - no argument from me. However, with all due respect to you, that would be the LEGAL and NORMAL method of getting an airliner back in the sky again.Terrorists sometimes don't follow normal and legal rules..

 

However I'll play devil's advocate, however far fetched: IF a terrorist organisation had the foresight and planning to want to steal an airliner for use at a later date - they would have organised appropriate ground equipment to cater for a 777 - tankers, ground power etc.

 

Now how they might ship all that out to a deserted airfield without arousing suspicion would be quite an achievement, although at the time of MH370s disappearance, was Socotra operational?

 

If that was the case , then assuming the organisation could take over the airport/bribe or eliminate personnel who were a threat, it might be possible. Then again a T7's a big girl especially if you're trying to hide her from surveillance satellites.. How long would she be on open ground for, before being towed into shelter? (Would Socotra have a hangar big enough?) Once an airliner is parked in the open at an airport, it's easy pickings for overflying satellites to spot. To avoid that you'd need to know the precise timings of any overflights and thus the time window available to move her into and out of cover.

 

Now this is all going a bit James Bond and Tom Clancy (RIP)..

[fluffyflops 1,858]

next time any of you want to spend an hour in my ops room at work you're more than welcome. we get on average 5 diverts / unscheduled nightstops a day  ( we do 1800 fights a day mid summer)

 

you cant just fly an aircraft into an airfield just like that, theres a million other factors,  PPR,Slots, Landing Permissions, Over flights Permissions, etc etc etc

 

the company I work for is the biggest in the UK and we have issues every day regarding the above.  We also have 4 people on shift 24 x 7 that all they do is monitor twitter,facebook and pprune for company related things.

 

9 times out of 10 our diverts and sqk 7000s take on average 2 minutes to hit twitter.  Thats right 2 mins.

 

As much as I love Clancy , Forsyth and Le Carre, they are a million miles away from the reality of aviation.  You cant just rock up at an airfield, put 80 tonnes of fuel on with a world fuel services card and "splash and dash"

[pete_auau 1,158]

 

 

However I'll play devil's advocate, however far fetched: IF a terrorist organisation had the foresight and planning to want to steal an airliner for use at a later date - they would have organised appropriate ground equipment to cater for a 777 - tankers, ground power etc.

 

Yep  iam  sure they would  phone  ahead  to ask permission to land  as well :smile: ,  they wouldnt  follow any  rules  of  flight planning  etc just have  to look at 9/11  no one  thought  that  could   have  happened  so your  theory could   happen  only  takes  some good  planning

[ziggy 47]

My thoughts when this happened and my thoughts still are this,

 

MH370 shot down south of the "search area" for whatever reason

 

Real MH370 crash sight cleaned up (what they could in due time) while "search area" to north was full of media, I'm sorry but you don't just lose a 777 and not even find one floating seat, I know it's a big area to search but come on.

 

Why? No idea, but I can't imagine why MH 17 was also shot down not long after over the Ukraine

 

RIP to all of the souls on both planes, but I'm afraid this one doesn't get solved for a long long time or ever, I know they have "found parts" recently but I honestly don't know what to believe anymore

 

Cheers

Greg Z

[yidahoo 365]

The fundamental problem with a terrorism related theory is the simple fact that the whole point of terrorism is to create mass hysteria with minimal resources. To that end, terrorists need the oxygen of publicity to further their aims. There has not been one credible claim by a terrorist organisation that they carried out this "attack" 

Even if it had gone wrong they would have made some perverse statement about it claiming to further their cause.