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Dillon

Malaysian Flight 370

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The a/c on the Hudson was 'much' smaller and it was flat calm. An a/c the size of a 777 is unlikely to stay intact especially ditching in the ocean. Something for you to remember next time you're a pasenger in a wide body flying over a sea. At the speed it would hit, the water acts pretty much like concrete.


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Super VC10 into LOWI with PF3 at a cinema near you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=298UDyNmgUA

 

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There was even a video of the crash landing. Pilot lost it. The left wing dropped into the water first which twisted the plane apart.

 

Left wing dropped as a consequence of stall- ie the aircraft speed was too low causing wing lift to be lost- regardless of pilot desperately trying to maintain level flight.

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To keep an airplane level, airspeed must be above stall. Minimum speed without stall is probably in the range of 140? knots with a full passenger load but no fuel.

 

In the open ocean, a VERY calm day will still likely have a swell of 2 ft.or more. Hard to visualize a 777 not breaking up on contact with the sea- whether piloted skillfully or not.

january

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The landing on the Hudson River was the perfect conditions. He landed on a flat river on a calm day and he also landed down stream with the flow of the water. Also it was an A320 which is smaller, and was also still floating the next morning.

 

What a 777 would do landing in the ocean is unknown but certainly it would break apart. If it was a soft landing most likely break into a few larger pieces and they would not float. A 777 is Aluminium and Alloy which none of that likes to float. The only thing that would float would be things like seat cushions, insulation, personal effects etc. anything metal would sink. The fuel tanks may float if they stayed intact, however if they ruptured on impact they would sink as well.


Matthew Kane

 

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Left wing dropped as a consequence of stall- ie the aircraft speed was too low causing wing lift to be lost- regardless of pilot desperately trying to maintain level flight.

----------------

To keep an airplane level, airspeed must be above stall. Minimum speed without stall is probably in the range of 140? knots with a full passenger load but no fuel.

 

In the open ocean, a VERY calm day will still likely have a swell of 2 ft.or more. Hard to visualize a 777 not breaking up on contact with the sea- whether piloted skillfully or not.

january

IIRC, the pilot was in a struggle with the hijacker at this moment.

 

Regardless, it is clear that a water landing in rough seas is not likely to end well.

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We should also look at a different impact hypothesis.  Instead of a controlled glide, suppose the plane went in nose first?  This might have happened if no one was at the controls, or if the person in the cockpit was trying to make the plane disappear, as has been suggested.  ValueJet 592, which went down in a Florida swamp, was such an impact:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

 

This plane impacted the swamp at over 500 mph, and was completely destroyed on impact.  No large pieces remained.

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We should also look at a different impact hypothesis.  Instead of a controlled glide, suppose the plane went in nose first?  This might have happened if no one was at the controls, or if the person in the cockpit was trying to make the plane disappear, as has been suggested.  ValueJet 592, which went down in a Florida swamp, was such an impact:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

 

This plane impacted the swamp at over 500 mph, and was completely destroyed on impact.  No large pieces remained.

 

 

Flash Airlines Flight 604 crashed similar to what you describe here and they found debris in the water.  No debris doesn't make since no matter how you slice it unless the plane liquefied on impact.


PREPAR3D v4/FS9.75

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The best theory I've heard regarding how the plane may have impacted, assuming a ghost plane flying on autopilot, is that one of the engines likely would have flamed out before to other causing a yaw that the autopilot would not have been able to overcome resulting in a rapid spiralling descent.

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The best theory I've heard regarding how the plane may have impacted, assuming a ghost plane flying on autopilot, is that one of the engines likely would have flamed out before to other causing a yaw that the autopilot would not have been able to overcome resulting in a rapid spiralling descent.

 

TAC would have kicked in before the other engine flamed out..  Whoever came up with that theory doesn't understand the 777


Rob Prest

 

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Air Canada (TCA)  DC8 Flight 831, dove vertically into a swamp in Quebec in 1963. Despite driving steel piles and excavating to about 40' depth, nothing of great significance was found.

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It would be interesting to see the Cargo Manifest for Malaysian FL 370.

One wonders if there were any very high value shipments- such as gold bullion, diamonds or pharmaceuticals.

Any of which perhaps, mysteriously, did NOT actually get loaded onto FL 370 and equally mysteriously disappeared from the air cargo facility.

A subsequent, unexplained aircraft disappearance would conveniently hide such an event.

january

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TAC would have kicked in before the other engine flamed out..  Whoever came up with that theory doesn't understand the 777

 

 

For those of us lacking your exretise, what's TAC and how would it maintain control if an engine flamed out?

 

Thanks.

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Flash Airlines Flight 604 crashed similar to what you describe here and they found debris in the water.  No debris doesn't make since no matter how you slice it unless the plane liquefied on impact.

 

The debris has probably floated far away by this time, nobody finding it yet doesn't mean there's no debris. 

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For those of us lacking your exretise, what's TAC and how would it maintain control if an engine flamed out?

 

Thanks.

 

Thrust asymmetry compensation, it will partially trim out asymmetry on the ground, in flight it will provide full trim in the event of a loss of thrust or full failure of one of the engines.  With or without A/P engagement.

 

On the ground only partial trim is applied so the pilot flying can quickly identify the failure through feel.

 

Those are the basics but you get the idea.

 

Regards 


Rob Prest

 

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The debris has probably floated far away by this time, nobody finding it yet doesn't mean there's no debris. 

 

There have also been storms and/or cyclones blow through the area. Something larger like a wing or tail fin could easily have sunk by now, and smaller items like seat cushions would be harder to spot, and look a lot like all of the other garbage floating around out there, from the air.

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There would be very little debris if the pilot attempted a controlled ditching. In preparation all the pax would have been strapped in and everything loose would have been stowed and/or secured. Even if the plane broke up on impact it would have been in relatively large pieces. AF447 if you remember pancaked into the ocean at 128mph so lots of bits broke off and were found soon after.

In a controlled ditching (excluding the Ethiopian accident) less breaks off and so less debris. Also no bodies as they were strapped in. Certainly some would have broken loose but frankly after a month any debris is very widespread and very distant from the impact point.


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Super VC10 into LOWI with PF3 at a cinema near you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=298UDyNmgUA

 

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