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MDF86

Question about real world landing procedure

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Hi Guys

 

I only have a rudimentary understanding of real world procedures so hopefully someone more in the know can help me out.

 

I fly the NGX and A320 in FSX and am quite competent in flying an airliner from A to B using the FMC and then performing an ILS approach into my destination by using LOC/APPR modes.

 

I normally disengage the AP at around 200ft and then flare myself just to make it seem like I'm actually doing something :lol:

 

I've been watching more and more real world videos on YouTube where it seems that in reality, the flight crew disable the AP a lot earlier in the approach (maybe 1000ft AGL) and hand fly from there. So my question is why they do this when they are in a position to be taken down the rest of the way automatically. Is it to be able to respond quicker, for example to an order to go around?

 

I've also seen times where they will establish on the localiser and then instead of engaging APPR when the glide slope is captured, they will set a V/S of around 600fpm which seems to always keep them in the right place on the glide slope. Again why would this mode be used when APPR mode would guide them down in perfect precision?

 

I'm keen to learn more about real world procedures, and also I learned back to front. For example as I say I am quite proficient at guiding an airliner to my destination using the FMC and doing an ILS approach but I would have no idea on how to do an approach into an airport that didn't have ILS. Can anyone direct me to a good place to start?

 

It seems I learned to run before I could walk without realising it :lol:

 

Thanks all

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Just to reply to your post about disconnecting the autopilot.

 

Being a commercial pilot in this day and age means that you are spending very little amount of the flight 'hand-flying'. So you as PIC (pilot in command) have every right to disconnect the autopilot when you want, to hand fly.

 

Different aircraft and airlines have different proceedures, but generally for the NG I know a lot of pilots disconnect the autopilot after they have gear down flaps 15. That leads to the trim not changing too much.

 

Again, your call! You are in the sim and no flight operations department judging your everymove :-).

 

(remember aircraft like the 777 have the auto-throttle in ALL the way down).

 

 

Hope that helps


Alex Ridge

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Disengaging the AP is for practicing purposes but the V/S during the ILS approach seems rather unusual to me.

 

And it's perfectly o.k. to mix ILS approaches with non-automated landings (ILS approach: yes; autoland: no).


What happened to AVSIM

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Hey Ollie,

 

What do you mean by 'The V/S seems odd'? are you talking about the AXE?

 

edit - nevermind just reread the OP's post.  Odd indeed, when flying a NPA you could select FPA, or setting a shallow V/S is often used when intercepting the G/S

 

Without seeing the videos it is pretty hard to figure out what he is talking about. Absolutely no reason not to use the glide slope if available. 

 

Cheers


Rob Prest

 

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Thanks guys for the responses!

 

With regards the constant V/S descent, I this is me misunderstanding the PFD readings.

 

If you look at this video, from 12:30 onwards, they seem to have captured the glideslope (PDF indicates ALT G/S in blue but they don't switch to APPR mode for a while, they continue in V/S mode). Having re-watched it, they stay in this mode until the ALT G/S disappears and it reads G/S* in green so I think this is me not understanding the difference between the two readings on the PFD.

 

When I sim, I arm LOC before I turn on to my final intercept heading, then as soon as I notice the purple diamond moving on the vertical axis on the PFD I hit APPR mode. Obviously that is not the real world best practice, but I've just been doing whatever gets me on terra firma :lol:

 

I am keen to do things more as they would happen in the real world though, this type of video is very informative.

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Guest JustanotherPilot

It depends on Company operating procedure but ultimately the Pilot flying. The MDA has to come into consideration in extreme weather. All things equal, your Approach method is acceptable to a real world scenario.

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An Airbus is very capable of catching the glideslope from above (and air traffic controllers are very much aware of that!). So a typical scenario could be an A319, A320 or A321 descending on the localizer, still being above the G/S, and the pilots dialling in a higher V/S in order to accomplish the G/S capture.


What happened to AVSIM

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I don't see a video? If the FMA display's  G/S*  (Glide Slope Star) it  means the aircraft  is ready to capture the glide slope.

 

G/S in blue means glide scope capture mode is armed.

 

It does sound like you are reading the FMA wrong, if you could post the video I can talk you through what is actually happening.

 

Kind regards


Rob Prest

 

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I don't see a video? If the FMA display's G/S* (Glide Slope Star) it means the aircraft is ready to capture the glide slope.

 

G/S in blue means glide scope capture mode is armed.

 

It does sound like you are reading the FMA wrong, if you could post the video I can talk you through what is actually happening.

 

Kind regards

Thanks Rob

 

In my haste I forgot to paste the link! It's the video from post #8 here, 12:30 onwards is the short spell I was referring to. I think you've hit the nail on the head, the blue indicating G/S capture sad armed and they were slightly above so makes sense to descend in VS mode

 

http://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/5142-your-favourite-a32x-videos/

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Thanks for the link, 

 

The video is interesting because the method is completely  normal if you understand the FMA modes, not so helpful if you use Youtube as a learning source ;)

 

They are just performing a shallow descent in V/S,the descent is much more shallow then the glide scope so they capture nicely.

 

This is not the method taught in the FCTM, however real flying is obviously dynamic & they achieved the goal safely.

 

Youtube is great for  watching how it is done, but don't watch one video and blindly follow :)

 

Regards (And nice video!)


Rob Prest

 

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Like previous posters suggested, we disengage basically when we want, because it is good practice to handfly as you are only in the simulator 2 times per year, so it is the only way to keep your skills at a high level, plus, most of us like flying!

 

Now, on a 737 you get plenty of landings obviously, but now imagine being a 777 captain and only having 3 or 4 flights per month. If you don't hand fly as much as you can during those3 to 4 times, it will be very hard when you have to do it when the ap is unserviceable. In my opinion this was a huge contributing factor in the 777 KSFO crash last year. I think the pf did not hand fly a lot which resulted in him having to concentrate too much on just the flying part, but like I said, this is just my opinion.

 

As for the vs mode you saw in use, You most likely saw a non precision approach, like a VOR app for instance, on which VS mode can be very useful.

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Whilst i agree with 99% of everything you say, they are flying a standard ILS approach not a NPA or VOR approach :)

 

Only  difference is they don't intercept from level flight, again no big deal if you know what you are doing.  They are in  a descent from 7000ft. in V/S   (hence the confusion)  for some.

 

Look at the FMA, it says CATIII dual, you wont get more precision then that on the bus :)

 

would be interesting to know the chart and Airport. 


Rob Prest

 

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Thanks guys for the info! As a simmer whose normal job is unrelated to aviation, it's great being able to ask these kind of questions from the more knowledgeable of real life procedures and techniques.

 

The Aerosoft A320 is right up there with the NGX in my opinion, obviously not quite as complex systems wise but I love it because it's Airbus! Looking forward to seeing what FSLabs do when it's finally released

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