Charts - Glideslope - EGGP

[declancurrey 0]

Hey,

 

I have recently switched from auto piloting the hell out of everything and just sitting there idle watching the computer fly the plane for me, to flying smaller aircraft manually on FSX and I'm glad I've started to learn how to fly properly (on fsx anyways), its MUCH more interesting

 

Anyway, I have been reading up visual approaches and flying the glideslope manually, rather than having the autopilot do it. I know how to read all the instruments on the plane and know wether I'm below or above the glideslope. (I'm flying the default Cessna Skyhawk 172).

 

It's a little hit and miss though, sometimes I can fly the glideslope nicely and keep the PAPI lights balanced (for the most part) and touch down, but other times I find myself landing in the middle of the runway or coming in way too short and having to push the throttle really hard to regain altitude, to then try and land again.

 

I'm practising at RWY27 - (EGGP) Liverpool John Lennon Airport and wondered if the charts/approach plate would help (I don't know how to read charts/approach plates I'm kinda winging it). On the charts I am interpreting it as follows: fly in, on final, at 2000ft 80kts and once I hit DME 5.9, I should then start descending at a rate of 420fpm, thus allowing me to follow the glideslope perfectly?

 

I guess my question in short is, how do I determine what altitude I should start trying to follow the glideslope? If anyone could give me a helping hand with the charts/approach plate or some tips I would be very grateful!

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Declan

 

(link for the charts below)

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-3403C99238623751BD47D0F9F7AEC31F/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGGP_8-4_en_2013-07-25.pdf

[idahosurge 2]

Looking at the chart that you posted the link to you approach waypoint D5.9 at a course of 268 at 2000' and at D5.9 you start following the G/S down to the runway.

 

When you get to D8.6 you should be at 2000' so when you get to D5.9 you are already at 2000'.

 

All of this is on the chart, you just need to get familar with how to read the information.

[ckyliu 1,749]

To be honest, you usually fly level at an altitude below the glideslope and "capture" it, that is to say the vertical glideslope indicator in the cockpit starts moving downwards -  that's when you start descending on the glideslope/ILS.

 

It's hard to calculate an exact required rate of descent because the fast you fly, the higher your rate of descent must be, generally you adjust your vertical speed as required to keep the glideslope indicator centred.

[mgh 89]

To be honest, you usually fly level at an altitude below the glideslope and "capture" it,

the OP is talking about a specific approach procedure. Amongst other points, the procedure clearly states "NOTE 1 Lowest altitude to commence procedure from hold is 2000" as idahosurge states.

[ckyliu 1,749]

the OP is talking about a specific approach procedure. Amongst other points, the procedure clearly states "NOTE 1 Lowest altitude to commence procedure from hold is 2000" as idahosurge states.

I was talking about descent rates and use of glideslope in general, the OP is looking to improve his hand flown glideslopes in general.

 

 

... On the charts I am interpreting it as follows: fly in, on final, at 2000ft 80kts and once I hit DME 5.9, I should then start descending at a rate of 420fpm, thus allowing me to follow the glideslope perfectly?...

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-3403C99238623751BD47D0F9F7AEC31F/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGGP_8-4_en_2013-07-25.pdf

All is correct, including the descent rate, but in reality you don't aim for a specific vertical speed as such, just feel for what is necessary to keep the glideslope needle centred. Aiming for a specific vertical speed is difficult because your ground speed varies with wind, indicated speed, altitude etc.

[wims80 121]

Look out your windscreen. The papi should tell you if you're on, above or below the glideslope. If you're above you reduce your throttle slightly until you're on it. If you're below then increase the throttle to catch up to the glideslope again. This is how you fly a visual approach. Don't look at your glideslope indicator instrument.

[mgh 89]

I was talking about descent rates and use of glideslope in general, the OP is looking to improve his hand flown glideslopes in general.

 

Look out your windscreen. The papi should tell you if you're on, above or below the glideslope. If you're above you reduce your throttle slightly until you're on it. If you're below then increase the throttle to catch up to the glideslope again. This is how you fly a visual approach. Don't look at your glideslope indicator instrument.

 

The title of this tread is Charts - Glideslope - EGGP. That's very clearly more than "...improve his hand flown glideslopes  in general..."

 

That also includes an ILS approach when the PAPI may not be visible on final approach. That's when the ILS is needed.

[ckyliu 1,749]

 The title of this tread is Charts - Glideslope - EGGP. That's very clearly more than "...improve his hand flown glideslopes  in general..."

So you didn't pay much attention to the content of the opening post, just the title?

I have been reading up visual approaches and flying the glideslope manually, rather than having the autopilot do it...

 

It's a little hit and miss though, sometimes I can fly the glideslope nicely and keep the PAPI lights balanced (for the most part) and touch down, but other times I find myself landing in the middle of the runway or coming in way too short and having to push the throttle really hard to regain altitude...

 

...If anyone could give me... some tips I would be very grateful!

I do note that whilst you seem to be picking holes in other posters advice, you're not actually offering much help yourself. So I am going to withdraw from this exchange forthwith, before it turns unpleasant and distracts too much from the original point of the thread, which was giving useful advice to the OP.

[declancurrey 0]

Thank you for your help!

 

It seems I was coming in on the approach a little too 'hot' which wasn't giving me enough time to adjust my throttle to keep the PAPI lights balanced.

 

I was getting so caught up in trying to get the glideslope right that I wasn't really paying attention to my airspeed and obviously, the faster the rate of descent, the faster the plane is going to plummet to the ground.

 

Your advice has been noted and will help me 'master' this, thanks! ^_^