26APR14 - P3D Development Status Thread - Updated

[Superdelphinus 718]

"My own consensus of opinion, based on talks with a whole lot of simmers flying in P3D is that the "student" version is perfectly okay to buy and fly if you are a home-based flight sim enthusiast. LM isn't interested in those of us who fly for enjoyment in our dens and man-caves - they are concerned with the use of their product for professional instruction and guidance, such as FBOs and flight schools and other commercial ventures."

 

To be honest I think there's a fair amount of group think going on with that view, mainly because lots of people have bought the academic version without being eligible to do so.

 

Is there a risk that pmdg might be rather more stringent in identifying who is and isn't eligible for whatever licences they offer for there p3d v2 products?

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

Is there a risk that pmdg might be rather more stringent in identifying who is and isn't eligible for whatever licences they offer for there p3d v2 products?

 

AFAIK there is no way to verify that.  And, if the platform owners aren't checking up on such, why or how could an add-on developer do so?

[DonOscar 9]

my two cents on this whole discussion:

 

why invest heavily in an outdated 32bit based application like P3D? same limitations with a few bugs corrected.

 

i would rather hope P3D turns towards real 64bit and addons are being recompiled to become compatible, then we can talk about it.

 

till then i'll stick with my good old fsx and try to do a bit of X-plane

[captainsazzman 83]

my two cents on this whole discussion:

 

why invest heavily in an outdated 32bit based application like P3D? same limitations with a few bugs corrected.

 

i would rather hope P3D turns towards real 64bit and addons are being recompiled to become compatible, then we can talk about it.

 

till then i'll stick with my good old fsx and try to do a bit of X-plane

 

They are planning 64 bit. The first estimate was fall 2014 but they said they have come across "complications"

[knukles 18]

When we will see products for PMDG P3D?

[DonOscar 9]

They are planning 64 bit. The first estimate was fall 2014 but they said they have come across "complications"

 

fair enough, still.. by the time they get these "complications" under control, release a new version get sdk etc for developers out... a loooong waiting

 

my question is if in the mean time it is worth buying such a sim based on old tech, add more money to addons that eventually will have to be repurchased when the 64 bit comes to market... I don't know you guys but buying all these addons has summed up to a decent amount of money already on fsx. if i bought this for p3d 2.2 then do it again for 64 bits version it would really hurt my bank account.

[captainsazzman 83]

fair enough, still.. by the time they get these "complications" under control, release a new version get sdk etc for developers out... a loooong waiting

 

my question is if in the mean time it is worth buying such a sim based on old tech, add more money to addons that eventually will have to be repurchased when the 64 bit comes to market... I don't know you guys but buying all these addons has summed up to a decent amount of money already on fsx. if i bought this for p3d 2.2 then do it again for 64 bits version it would really hurt my bank account.

only *some* have mentioned repurchasing for 64bit. QW for example are deciding between giving it free or asking for another 10 bucks on top of the original price. Some developers however might  ask you to pay all over but only few have said that (subject to change). I think Carenado might as you to pay again or sell it you again at a discount or some other developer said that. Cant remember exactly. anyway the 64 bit SDK is out

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

"then do it again for 64 bits version it would really hurt my bank account."

 

I wouldn't bank on that - when they iron out a few issues with 32bit should be great

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I might remind every one here that is making up all sorts of equations as to what the pricing will be for a P3D release of PMDG products, this includes you Kyle.

 

It does?

 

I don't recall putting numbers out there.   I stated facts:

FACT - Boeing commercial data costs a TON of money.  That's a hard fact, and it can't be debated.  You're welcome to ask Boeing directly, too.

FACT - A business cannot survive if it eats costs simply to please customers.  If cost exceeds income, the business dies.  That's ECON 101.

FACT - A business will set prices based on its costs, plus markup (at market levels) to ensure survival.

 

I'm sorry, but as I've stated about a hundred times already:

Ignorance of facts isn't going to get anyone anywhere.  The people in here who are choosing to ignore facts in order to prop up their fantasy of P3D being their future sim is just going to result in some hurt feelings later on.  It's a commercial sim.  It will come with commercial pricing.  Yes, I know there are other licenses that will likely have cheaper licenses for the aircraft as well, but as far as we've been told, Boeing treats this data similarly (more expensive than entertainment).  So, the fantasy that it's going to be just as cheap, or a free conversion, or that it should be "affordable" to the average simmer is just that: a fantasy.

 

Commercial product - commercial buyer.

Educational product - actual educational user/buyer (yes, I'm implying things there, and some of you know who you are...)

 

 

 

My own consensus of opinion, based on talks with a whole lot of simmers flying in P3D is that the "student" version is perfectly okay to buy and fly if you are a home-based flight sim enthusiast. LM isn't interested in those of us who fly for enjoyment in our dens and man-caves - they are concerned with the use of their product for professional instruction and guidance, such as FBOs and flight schools and other commercial ventures.

 

You can get in a lot of hot water by listening to people who don't have a clue in the slightest about what they're talking about.

Talking with a whole lot of simmers about their opinion on whether or not the "student" version is okay to use at home is about as worthless as asking a group of high school students about their legal opinions on (insert issue here).

 

Answer:

It's not.

 

Proof:

http://www.prepar3d.com/product-overview/prepar3d-license-comparison/

 

Reading the description, it mentions the academic community.  Unless you're in a STEM program, or university, that's not you.  Beyond that, the last line makes it abundantly clear: Personal Consumer Entertainment - BIG RED X.  The edu license is for people in valid edu programs.  It's not meant for anyone at home, on their personal PC to mess around like most of us do with FSX.

 

If you're a pilot (licensed, or in training), you can go for the Pro license.  Apart from that, it's commercial or nothing.

 

This concept is not that tough, but people seem to be living in this alternate reality in apparent hopes that if they lie to themselves and everyone else enough, it'll eventually come true.

 

...except in this case, the lies (or just perpetuation of other people's lies/misunderstandings) put people at legal risk.   :Straight Face:

[JVW 0]

Again, you don't know what PMDG are going to charge...

 

You can point out all these FACT's in till you are blue in the face, the one FACT you seem to be ignoring is what PMDG already stated when they announced a P3D line.

 

Just in case you could not read it the first time, here it is again.

 

 

 

If you wish to step up to one of our enterprise solutions on P3D or Xplane, you won't find the cost difference to be too dramatic unless you are buying licenses for training use.

 

 

Likewise, at the end of the day, what other people do and how others choose to interpret a doccument, is not your concern, stop worrying about what every one else is doing. 

 

Kirk

[DonOscar 9]

"then do it again for 64 bits version it would really hurt my bank account."

 

I wouldn't bank on that - when they iron out a few issues with 32bit should be great

 

you're sure ? by the memory issues we see with the current products, i have a feeling quality developers are already going beyond what fsx and 32bits allows them. relying on more recent technology would give them much more freedom to develop new things without having to compromise on resources, and on top, a new designed core would really iron out issues

 

i would rather wait 2 years for a complete new sim and then having shorter development times for advanced add ons on a modern and bug free technology, than having to wait the long times we had since release of last SP1 of NGX and the SP1 of 777 (30 months if i am not completely wrong).

By hopefully reducing development times, add on developers like pmdg would also be able to reduce costs and therefore more folks would be able to purchase their products

 

but i am not pmdg and i am not a developer

this is just my opinion and what i will most probably do. stick with fsx and live with the compromise till better sim comes alive unless developers get serious with x-plane which unlike P3D is licensed for entertainment.

[captainsazzman 83]

HAHAHA for all of you who werent here and are worrying about PMDG price. ITS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE! FACT! why? PMDG licenses data from Boeing!!! They are not like C*ptains*m who build planes on approximations. PMDG get exact data from a license deal from boeing an because P3D is a commercial sim they will make PMDG pay more for their data (thats how the commercial sector works its more expensive) and so we will have to pay more for PMDG P3D, FACT! If the material wasnt directly licensed from Boeing (PMDG got it themselves *some other means*) it would be cheaper

as for a discount??? Back when PMDG first posted their line for P3D, ryan maziarz aka tabs (or some other staff member) said they would CONSIDER a discount for fsx users that will last for the FIRST MONTH OR SO after P3D release then after that you have to buy it again but remember its SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The speculated price back then is between 90 and 120 dollars  (the price was speculated, statements by ryan and staff really did happen albeit a loooong time ago dig back to fall 2013 in forums and you will see)


as for using P3D as a replacement for fsx, you can________________ if you intend to use it to *learn* in a *simulator environment* which most of us PMDG study simmers do anyway. The more casual guys will purchase it too and even though it will be against EULA, LM doesnt really care. Say what you will they just dont care that much. If they really did they would put checks on their product page to see if you really are a student or a private pilot. They *MAY* decide to enforce that one day but thats about as likely as LM releasing an entertainment version of P3D


so this is whats gonna happen. Some of yall are gonna continue using fsx because your thousand hour tweaks, super fast computer and thousands of addons make it look and word good even though the game is nearing a decade in age. The others will switch to xplane and hope for the best (great sim, sadly not my cup of tea so far) and some will stay on the dovetail bandwagon to see where that goes. Most of you however will cave in and buy P3D academic because lets face it: for years you were moaning and crying about wanting *fsx* to be fixed up and modernized by ACES developers (ahem, P3D) and your wish was more or less granted. You will buy to take part in the breakthroughs being made by the likes of HiFi, PMDG, Carenado, Orbx ,etc because their experience with fsx is really showing in the stuff they are preparing for Prepar3d (geddit? ha!). Just wait until this goes 64 bit!!!


Also to those screaming for a whole new sim made from scratch... Do you know how hard that is and that it will require YEARS for it to be released? unless you're happy using fsx until 2018

You wont like the price and will try to negotiate a discount where possible but for addons that use licensed materials from real world manufacturers (PMDG and others) you will have to pay a little more. By YOU I am referring to all the negative skeptics, those who laughed at the idea of a weather radar on the PMDG forums when others said it was POSSIBLE but woul need a remodeled weather engine which PMDG are not going to do. Now y'all are scrounging your pennies to buy ASN. ha!

That is what will happened be stubborn if you will but that is the future of our hobby in simple terms

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

"Most of you however will cave in and buy P3D academic because lets face it: for years you were moaning and crying about wanting *fsx* to be fixed up and modernized by ACES developers (ahem, P3D) and your wish was more or less granted. You will buy to take part in the breakthroughs being made by the likes of HiFi, PMDG, Carenado, Orbx ,etc because their experience with fsx is really showing in the stuff they are preparing for Prepar3d (geddit? ha!). Just wait until this goes 64 bit!!!"

 

EXACTLY

[Kattz 132]

"Most of you however will cave in and buy P3D academic because lets face it: for years you were moaning and crying about wanting *fsx* to be fixed up and modernized by ACES developers (ahem, P3D) and your wish was more or less granted. You will buy to take part in the breakthroughs being made by the likes of HiFi, PMDG, Carenado, Orbx ,etc because their experience with fsx is really showing in the stuff they are preparing for Prepar3d (geddit? ha!). Just wait until this goes 64 bit!!!"

 

EXACTLY

Agree with that poster as well.  P3D and DCS are the only animals residing on my PC with regards to flight sim software.

[Superdelphinus 718]

AFAIK there is no way to verify that.  And, if the platform owners aren't checking up on such, why or how could an add-on developer do so?

I dunno, was just a posit