KMSP-KOMA Help

[ap1 16]

Ronzie, I flew the flight that you suggested.  I had a few problems but did make a successful landing.  Here's how I set up every flight and this flight with RC.  I went to flightaware and it was similar to the route you told me to take.  

     Here's the route: ORSKY8 FOD LANTK1. I used the FSX default 737 with the GPS and the points JURNY, PEDLN and RUMLE were not in the FSX planner.  So what I did is took the coordinates for these waypoints and put them in the planner and then in notepad I modified the waypoints to make it say the names instead of like WP1 etc.  I created two plans, one for Radar Contact and for the FSX GPS.  The FSX GPS included all the waypoints of the SID up to FOD.  I then added the STAR to LANTK and that finished the plan.

       The plan for RC included just the transition point, and the STAR from FOD to LANTK.  I also added the MSP VOR for the plan in the FSX GPS, and then got the VOR frequency.  I took off on runway 30L.  I crossed the VOR on the GPS and then watched the DME until it hit 7 miles like the SID said, and then hit VOR LOC and the plane went directly to JURNY.  All was fine unitl I got to about PEDLN or RUMLE.  RC told me I was off course.  Now I do know the answer: it's because I was out of the departure airspace already which is 30 miles I believe.

      But for other SIDS, I put the transition point only, and all is fine.  So my first question is, how do I know what waypoints to put for SIDS?  One other thing.  I always decide the runway to take off and land on before the flight.  Since I always know the runways, what do I just put common points in or do I add the transition or the whole SID?  

     Anyway, I eventually headed towards FOD and then things were fine since RC knew I was headed toward there now.  The cruising alt I was at was FL280.  The area controller put me down to FL250, then as I reached FL250, put me down to FL240.  The high controller then handed me off to low, and gave a PD clearance to 15,000.  

     At this point, I always descend to the PD alt.  I also always descend at a rate of 2000 to 2100 FPM.  The runway I selected for arrival was runway 18 which is ILS equipped.  Also, on the controller screen in RC, I always adjust the MSA to be the FAF alt.  Is that bad?  This arrival was more or less a base leg.  So then center told me to go down to 11,000 and be level within 30 miles or less.  

     So I of course did as instructed.  Then about 40 miles out, center handed me off to approach.  Approach then told me to expect vectors for runway 18.  Now here's where the problem began.  Approach told me to head 245 and descend to 9000.  I reduced the speed from 250 to 230, and initiated a descent to 9000.  Looking on the GPS, I saw that the heading they gave me was not an accurate vector so i went off the heading they told me to be on and vectored myself in on a nice base leg.

      I then requested IAP and they handed me off to tower on final just after the FAF.  The problem here is, why did RC give me this vector?  They should of put me on a comfortable base leg but instead they didn't.  I've had this at other airports too, and never understood why they do this.  I took the vectors because the STAR chart said to expect vectors.  

     But I don't understand why RC gave me this vector that didn't line me up with the ILS.  Is this even what I should of done?  Should I of requested an IAP and vector myself, or let RC do it?  I have Makerwys installed and rebuilt the scenery but I still have this problem with straight in approaches.  Anyway, was what I doing correct procedures for the SIDS and STARS?  If not, what is it?

      Thanks.  P.S.  I still feel that I can't fly these complicated procedures accurately yet.  I don't think the manual says anything like this.  The parts I saw included a flight from KLAS to KLAX, but that route was easy.  I've seen other SIDS and STARS like these that require radar vectors and other things.  Another STAR that uses vectors is the LENDY SIX into KJFK.  This example STAR was in the manual, but it didn't say anything on how to fly this.  I still struggle with this STAR.  Thanks again.  And I'm sorry for so many questions but I can never seem to get all these different types of SIDS and STARS, such as RNAV ones, radar vectored, non-rnav and so forth.  

[ronzie 21]

Re:

 

KOMA 18R Approach from LANTK:

 

LANTK is 36 nm from KOMA . Approach might have started you early before LANTK, 250 degrees to airport center at LANTK but less earlier to get you to an IAF of about 18 nm north of the threshold for a merge to the ILS. If it thought you might be too far south for that north 18 nm merge, then it would vector you south of the airport, then a downwind pattern going north, then west base, etc.

 

Note the charts are not to scale.

 

Follow through the vectors to see what will happen.

 

For KOMA, the STARS you mention are not runway specific, You just choose as you did the entry transition (FOD which also is an available departure transition for ORSKY8).

 

For GA aircraft and turbo-props you have the option of a shorter final in which case it might have given you direct base entry. It is pretty close.

 

Study the traffic pattern entries in the manual.

 

As far as "expect" radar vector points RC approach will start vectors about 35 nm out regardless of what the STAR procedure states when you allow for distance lost due to comm procedure delays especially in fast aircraft.

 

The MSA value in RC is not necessarily the FAF value. It is an 360 degree average terrain value at a certain distance out from data obtained from a third party source. If you look at a sectional chart you'll see the MSA for each quadrant in hundreds of feet in large letters. I don't know the exact formula. RC calculates the merge altitude I believe based on that and assumes a three degree glide slope.

 

For KMSP departure, MSP is 1 nm out so RC will require you to navigate on your own to line upf with JURNY 31 nm out by leg total distance but actually within 30 nm radially. Just heed the waypoint status in the RC in flight window. Make sure you are within two nm of the waypoint to get credit if it is in the list and pops off waypoint stack. You still have to fly over the waypoints to be crossed that are in the list.

 

MSP is only 1 nm from KMSP center and not in line with 30L. The instructions for ORSK8 30L departure state MSP arc for altitude primarily, not fly over. Your first waypoint in the RC plan would be JURNY, at about 20 nm out so no vectors and you cross it then line yourself up for RUMLE at about 35 nm from KMSP.

 

When you take off from KMSP you'll be told runway heading then as filed or some such words meaning no vectors.

[ap1 16]

OK, thanks for the reply.  I'll redo this flight sometime and see what happens.  Thanks again.