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theskyisthelimit

Prepar3D 2.x + FTX PNW v1.8 -drop 7-10 fps and blurries with Hybrid?

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I've tested this several different ways, but from what i'm seeing, i get about a 10 fps drop if i have FTX PNW enabled in the scenery library.  This on hybrid mode.  

 

For example.. running a 40 second Fsmark07 test run:

 

Hybrid mode:                           30-34 fps

NA mode:                                 37 fps

Hybrid with PNW unchecked:  44 fps

 

This is also with FTXg as well.

 

Has anyone else noticed a drop like this.. i'm assuming this may only be for the area in the PNW (particularly the Seattle area).

 

I've tried this with nothing else installed or with a full on install with lots of addons, the results are the same.  This is with patching up to Patch08 or running the triple installer on a "clean" install.  This does not matter if version 2.1 or version 2.2 either.

 

I also noticed that the blurries are pretty quick to show up in Hybrid as opposed to using North America mode in FTX Central.

 

Thanks in advance..

 

 

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I've tested this several different ways, but from what i'm seeing, i get about a 10 fps drop if i have FTX PNW enabled in the scenery library.  This on hybrid mode.  

 

For example.. running a 40 second Fsmark07 test run:

 

Hybrid mode:                           30-34 fps

NA mode:                                 37 fps

Hybrid with PNW unchecked:  44 fps

 

This is also with FTXg as well.

 

Has anyone else noticed a drop like this.. i'm assuming this may only be for the area in the PNW (particularly the Seattle area).

 

I've tried this with nothing else installed or with a full on install with lots of addons, the results are the same.  This is with patching up to Patch08 or running the triple installer on a "clean" install.  This does not matter if version 2.1 or version 2.2 either.

 

I also noticed that the blurries are pretty quick to show up in Hybrid as opposed to using North America mode in FTX Central.

 

Thanks in advance..

My tests haven't been as controlled as yours, but very similar experiences.

 

i.e.  Use OrbX PNW and watch the FPS get hammered.

 

Only option is turn settings way down, which sadly defeats most of the purpose of even having the add-on to begin with.

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I am also seeing this, but with the Northern Cal region. Sad, because I think they just released an portover installer, instead of a version for P3Dv2 like they said. It runs horrible.

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Has anyone else noticed a drop like this.. i'm assuming this may only be for the area in the PNW (particularly the Seattle area).

 

I have noticed that this area is taking a very hard hit on performance.

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   I'm seeing a similar result on my machine as well. My best results have come with frames locked/holding steady at 20, and NA set inside ftx control panel. This is with AA/AF set to 4x. Cloud/terrain shadows are on. If I try to set fps to unlimited, my gpu goes to 98% load and then blurries take over. I do not think orbx have optimized anything for p3dv2. Making an installer recognize P3dv2 is not optimizing.

   regards, Jazz.

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Yeah, I don't know what to do.  It's brutal.

 

I just did KSQL to KSAC with stock and I was well into the 40's all the time on FPS (often up near 55-60).

Dial in the NorCal OrbX and I'm cut in half and it's a slideshow.

 

I'm not sure their products are worth it if it's going to absolutely slaughter performance like that.  Some hit is expected, but not halving frame rates in a relatively sparse "city" area like Sacto.  Just shouldn't be like that IMO.

 

...but they already have my money, so not sure they care.  :-(

 

 

 

.. .What I really don't get is that my VRAM is never getting higher than about 2.5gb, and my GPU usage is never more than about 70% and my CPU, no problems there from what I can see.....

 

Could it really just be extremely poorly optimized (or not optimzed) things with OrbX?

I mean the stock doesn't look *awful* or anything, yet 2x the FPS!!??

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I thought my blurries were better in NA mode (as opposed to FTX Global/hybrid mode).. slightly better but it shows up still.. fail.

 

Everyone's input at least confirms its not something i have installed causing an issue, thankfully..

I know the blurries seem to go away if i disable PNW.. but i've yet to test this while leaving Northern CA active to see if that region suffers blurries as well.

Combine North Cal with San fran scenery from aerosoft and i'm going from say 48+ fps then dipping as nearing san fran, to near big buildings 19-25 (with slight haze in area).. 

 

And in PNW, that extra 7-10 fps is key when throwing weather in there, especially on 3 24" screens.

 

Setting fps to 20 didnt seem to help with the blurries at all (vsync set to on in P3d).

 

EDIT: retested in the fsmark bombardier 700 in FTX CA and i dont seem to notice much in the way of blurries at 5.5 LOD (PNW is unchecked, whether its unchecked or checked there are only some minor delays on scenery loading/blurries, apparent by hitting pause here and there) (same LOD as i had had set previously, but blurries far worse in the Seattle region with PNW enabled)   Hopefully future patches will improve performance, particularly with the blurry issue in PNW region (seattle at least).

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Yes, same issues here.

Don't know what happened in v2.2 Prepar3D and FTX - As great as both softwares' are, they are just fps killers together - and that's with a very hi-end pc...

What I feel is the most alarming, neither LM or FTX are saying a word about this issue?  Go figure

 

 

Tom

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neither LM or FTX are saying a word

 

Totally agree with you, except that I'm not sure what there is for LM to say about OrbX making somewhat "bloated" 3rd party scenery...haha.

 

Looks nice, but really kills the "fun" when performance is so awful.

 

Honestly I get ridiculously wonderful performance on very high graphics settings....when OrbX is not involved...  :-(

 

 

Hybrid with PNW unchecked:  44 fps

 

Does this mean "unchecked" within P3D in the Scenery Library?

Thanks

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PNW Seattle is basically unplayable for me unless Scenery Complexity is Very Sparse or Sparse. Scenery Complexity seems to be the hardest FPS hitter. Big cities with custom scenery and large airports always bring my computer to it's knees. I know I don't have the fastest CPU in the world (shock, it's not overclocked!) but the hit I get seems unreasonable. This has always been an issue (even in FSX), but in P3D with Orbx the problem is far more pronounced.

 

I don't think this is necessarily an Orbx issue, but rather an engine issue. I could be wrong though.

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I thought my blurries were better in NA mode (as opposed to FTX Global/hybrid mode).. slightly better but it shows up still.. fail.

 

Everyone's input at least confirms its not something i have installed causing an issue, thankfully..

I know the blurries seem to go away if i disable PNW.. but i've yet to test this while leaving Northern CA active to see if that region suffers blurries as well.

Combine North Cal with San fran scenery from aerosoft and i'm going from say 48+ fps then dipping as nearing san fran, to near big buildings 19-25 (with slight haze in area)..

 

And in PNW, that extra 7-10 fps is key when throwing weather in there, especially on 3 24" screens.

 

Setting fps to 20 didnt seem to help with the blurries at all (vsync set to on in P3d).

 

EDIT: retested in the fsmark bombardier 700 in FTX CA and i dont seem to notice much in the way of blurries at 5.5 LOD (PNW is unchecked, whether its unchecked or checked there are only some minor delays on scenery loading/blurries, apparent by hitting pause here and there) (same LOD as i had had set previously, but blurries far worse in the Seattle region with PNW enabled) Hopefully future patches will improve performance, particularly with the blurry issue in PNW region (seattle at least).

How does one determine the LOD to use?

Like I notice some set it up to 9.5 manually in the CFG file

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Does this mean "unchecked" within P3D in the Scenery Library?

Thanks

 

Yeah, using SceneryConfigEditor i uncheck the 4 or so entries for PNW.

How does one determine the LOD to use?

Like I notice some set it up to 9.5 manually in the CFG file

 

I tried for higher LOD on my system.. around 6.5.. and at times this was causing out of memory errors.. so i scaled back to 5.5.  I didnt have much drop in FPS by going to 6.5 though, maybe 0.5 - 1 fps at best (drop).

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I've tested this several different ways, but from what i'm seeing, i get about a 10 fps drop if i have FTX PNW enabled in the scenery library.  This on hybrid mode.  

 

For example.. running a 40 second Fsmark07 test run:

 

Hybrid mode:                           30-34 fps

NA mode:                                 37 fps

Hybrid with PNW unchecked:  44 fps

 

This is also with FTXg as well.

 

Has anyone else noticed a drop like this.. i'm assuming this may only be for the area in the PNW (particularly the Seattle area).

 

I've tried this with nothing else installed or with a full on install with lots of addons, the results are the same.  This is with patching up to Patch08 or running the triple installer on a "clean" install.  This does not matter if version 2.1 or version 2.2 either.

 

I also noticed that the blurries are pretty quick to show up in Hybrid as opposed to using North America mode in FTX Central.

 

Thanks in advance..

Hi,

 

You and I have essentially the same hardware.  I think the problem comes from an expectation of thinking you have to continue to have excellent performance no matter what you add in the way of scenery and of course that's just not possible.  You know this I know, but really it's no wonder FTX regions are harder to process than non-regional scenery, especially when you throw in something like the Seattle area.  

 

I use both PNW & NCA and they both work fabulously, however I'm deliberate in how I use them.  I also have Global installed.   When I'm doing a flight out of a dense metro area on the west coast using tube liners, I just disable Hybrid mode and go Global only.   For starters, you're up in the air quickly and in short order the added scenery complexity in the regional areas like PNW/NCA is pretty much not relevant anyway, so Global only is perfect for this.  You can safely enable 3rd party airports using Global only as well, so that fits well w/ using tube liners out of larger terminals.  When flying light aircraft (favs for P3D are RA Turbine Duke & RA Lancair) out of smaller airports then performance is fabulous in the FTX regions.   One nice discovery for me w/ my SB-E and this would work for you would be AffinityMask=4094.   This AM value works very well for amping up texture loading rates.  I have crystal clear image quality always using maxed terrain sliders.  I keep autogen at Dense or Very High, vegetation at Very High.  Cloud shadows are their own issue though as we've all discovered.   When cloud density is high, and esp at dawn/dusk, performance can tank, regardless of the scenery complexity at times, though made worse by high density.

 

So try using P3D as two distinctly separate simulators--one w/ Global only for flying the big birds from dense metro areas, and turn on FTX regions for your more rural  & VFR light aircraft flights.  An exception to this is the CS MD80 which, despite being a fairly complex bird, gets exceptional performance.  I can fly in and out of NCA larger terminals and do fairly well, w/ frames in the low to mid 20's for example at FB's KSFO in NCA region.

 

Again, 4094 is a sweet AM for hexacore. 

 

 

.. .What I really don't get is that my VRAM is never getting higher than about 2.5gb, and my GPU usage is never more than about 70% and my CPU, no problems there from what I can see.....

 

 

This happened w/ the method LM used to help w/ VAS depletion.  In 2.1 or 2.0 I would see nearly all of my 6Gb of VRAM being utilized, but now rarely above 2Gb.   VAS impact is certainly greatly improved so it's fine, but I am hoping they can somehow exploit larger VRAM capacity at some point.  I've mentioned it to LM.

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So is it true that FTX sceneries pose a greater performance hit in Prepar3D 2.2 compared to FSX?

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Go figure

Thanks in advance..

Apologize for going a little off topic but just wanted to pass on a friendly reminder that we have changed our signature policy again and we are kindly asking everyone to please put their system specs and flight sim information in their respective "My Profile". More details can be found at the following link - http://forum.avsim.net/topic/436632-new-signature-rules or under the Forums tab above. Thanks for your cooperation.

 

Best regards,

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One nice discovery for me w/ my SB-E and this would work for you would be AffinityMask=4094

 

Have a good Affinity Mask # I could try for Ivy Bridge E (i7 4930k)?

 

I've seen all the AM calculators, but then I see people trying numbers that aren't created by any calculators and the whole thing is over my head...

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Have a good Affinity Mask # I could try for Ivy Bridge E (i7 4930k)?

 

I've seen all the AM calculators, but then I see people trying numbers that aren't created by any calculators and the whole thing is over my head...

It's pretty straightforward really, at least the theoretical explanation.  Folks trying random AM's on a trial and error basis, well hard to comment on the logic behind some of them I agree.  In case you don't know the simple theory:

 

P3D/FSX both are hard-coded (I hope this is correct, I know it used to be!) to utilize Core1 (not Core0) for the 'main thread', i.e. fsx.exe or prepar3D.exe (or p3d.exe, whichever is the main executable).  Along came some revisions in FSX and presumably they were inherited w/ P3D, so that in multicore environments the other cores could be utilized by the 'texture loaders'.  So each physical core or virtual core (i.e., HT enabled) can be tapped by the sim to help load scenery textures while the main thread does what it needs to do to run the sim.

 

If you open your Windows 7 calculator, choose Programmer Mode, and click the decimal (dec) radial button and type in 4094, then click the binary button, you will see this conversion:

 

111111111110

 

Each virtual core is represented by a digit, but in reverse order.   The lone 0 at the end is Core/Thread0, and with this AM value P3D or FSX will not utilize this core/thread.   Other apps you might have running can be forced to use only Core/Thread0, which is what I do w/ REX4 and Media Player (used to run liveatc.net feeds)  

 

The '1' to the left of the 0 will be what the sim uses for the main thread, so we will designate that one as Core/Thread1.  The other 10 1's will all be available for texture loading, to help reduce blurred textures.  Indeed--works exquisitely well on this machine.   I know I have best ever total performance w/ 4094.  Has to be very useful to have 10 separate threads handling texture loading.

 

Your IB-E is the same as my SB-E in terms of AM's, and as well they have virtually identical performance.  My SB-E clocks easily at 1.295v to 4.325Ghz, and maintains temps generally under 66C w/ HT enabled.

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So is it true that FTX sceneries pose a greater performance hit in Prepar3D 2.2 compared to FSX?

 

They are within a few frames for me (FSX being slightly ahead) whether flying over urban or rural, but my P3D set-up has much more going on graphically, with volumetric fog, HDR and cloud shadows, so I would expect to see lower frame rates. This is running Global base only and regions.

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It's pretty straightforward really, at least the theoretical explanation.  Folks trying random AM's on a trial and error basis, well hard to comment on the logic behind some of them I agree.  In case you don't know the simple theory:

 

P3D/FSX both are hard-coded (I hope this is correct, I know it used to be!) to utilize Core1 (not Core0) for the 'main thread', i.e. fsx.exe or prepar3D.exe (or p3d.exe, whichever is the main executable).  Along came some revisions in FSX and presumably they were inherited w/ P3D, so that in multicore environments the other cores could be utilized by the 'texture loaders'.  So each physical core or virtual core (i.e., HT enabled) can be tapped by the sim to help load scenery textures while the main thread does what it needs to do to run the sim.

 

If you open your Windows 7 calculator, choose Programmer Mode, and click the decimal (dec) radial button and type in 4094, then click the binary button, you will see this conversion:

 

111111111110

 

Each virtual core is represented by a digit, but in reverse order.   The lone 0 at the end is Core/Thread0, and with this AM value P3D or FSX will not utilize this core/thread.   Other apps you might have running can be forced to use only Core/Thread0, which is what I do w/ REX4 and Media Player (used to run liveatc.net feeds)  

 

The '1' to the left of the 0 will be what the sim uses for the main thread, so we will designate that one as Core/Thread1.  The other 10 1's will all be available for texture loading, to help reduce blurred textures.  Indeed--works exquisitely well on this machine.   I know I have best ever total performance w/ 4094.  Has to be very useful to have 10 separate threads handling texture loading.

 

Your IB-E is the same as my SB-E in terms of AM's, and as well they have virtually identical performance.  My SB-E clocks easily at 1.295v to 4.325Ghz, and maintains temps generally under 66C w/ HT enabled.

 

Noel, I think I am finally understanding the AM.  So if I have a 4770K with Hyperthreading on (I know this because Windows Task managers shows 8 CORES) then it seems I would want the following AM setting:

 

 

11111110  (which I believe translates to 254). This would allow cores 1-7 to do texture loading with core 0 opened to tasks.  Does this sound right or am I missing the boat?

 

Also, what is your theory on how to implement AM?  Task manager or .cfg file or both?  Is there anything else i need to change (do I have to input the binary digits anyhwere) or do I simply need to implement the AM?

 

-Phil

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11111110  (which I believe translates to 254). This would allow cores 1-7 to do texture loading with core 0 opened to tasks.  Does this sound right or am I missing the boat?

 

Also, what is your theory on how to implement AM?  Task manager or .cfg file or both?  Is there anything else i need to change (do I have to input the binary digits anyhwere) or do I simply need to implement the AM?

 

Yes, I agree 254 would do for quad core w/ HT enabled what 4094 does for hexacore w/ HT enabled.  The main thread for you will be Core1, and 2-7 become the texture loaders.  I am more and more convinced this approach gets the best results for sure in terms of everything, but especially texture loading, w/ no penalty by putting the main thread on one virtual core versus one physical core.  

 

If you use the AffinityMask setting in prepar3D.cfg, then you will see when you open TM after p3d launches the .exe will show the first box (Core/Thread0) unchecked (it's been masked from P3D using it), and will be available for whatever you assign it to do.  So no need other than curiosity to see how it works to open TM to change what the JOBSCHEDULER does thru p3D.cfg--i.e., it does what it's supposed to do.  Most Windows apps I think will default to all cores, but you can override each/any and have them run on Core0, or virtual Core0 as the HT case will be.  There is so little going on in the OS in general compared to P3d running that I think it's fine to leave everything but perhaps something that might interfere more than general background OS tasks.   This is why I assign Core0 to REX4 and media player.  It may or may not help there--there is actually ample headroom in the texture loader cores so one could assign these and other running apps to anything EXCEPT virtual Core1 and probably notice no difference.  

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Yes, I agree 254 would do for quad core w/ HT enabled

 

What about a quad core with HT disabled?

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What about a quad core with HT disabled?

14 if you want to keep Core0 out of P3D/FSX, 15 if you want to let the sim run on all 4 cores.  I ran FSX for years on 14 w/ a Q9650.  I think in keeping w/ making as many cores available as possible I'd still think 254 or 255 w/ HT enabled would be preferred, but I haven't tried it personally.

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Yes, I agree 254 would do for quad core w/ HT enabled what 4094 does for hexacore w/ HT enabled.  The main thread for you will be Core1, and 2-7 become the texture loaders.  I am more and more convinced this approach gets the best results for sure in terms of everything, but especially texture loading, w/ no penalty by putting the main thread on one virtual core versus one physical core.  

 

If you use the AffinityMask setting in prepar3D.cfg, then you will see when you open TM after p3d launches the .exe will show the first box (Core/Thread0) unchecked (it's been masked from P3D using it), and will be available for whatever you assign it to do.  So no need other than curiosity to see how it works to open TM to change what the JOBSCHEDULER does thru p3D.cfg--i.e., it does what it's supposed to do.  Most Windows apps I think will default to all cores, but you can override each/any and have them run on Core0, or virtual Core0 as the HT case will be.  There is so little going on in the OS in general compared to P3d running that I think it's fine to leave everything but perhaps something that might interfere more than general background OS tasks.   This is why I assign Core0 to REX4 and media player.  It may or may not help there--there is actually ample headroom in the texture loader cores so one could assign these and other running apps to anything EXCEPT virtual Core1 and probably notice no difference.  

 

Unfortunately at least with my rig, 4094 wasnt much help.. actually decreased the frame rate during my test by 1.8 fps.. i have left it at 1364.. i've tried quite a few of the other variations, all without any success.. i run HT with 12 logical cores on the 4930k (i also tried 62 and setting via msconfig to be only 6 logical cores).. nothing really cured stutters in this area..

 

What i just found out however, was the following..

 

I used Scenery Config Editor.. I unchecked ALL addons, which includes FTX related addons.. then i turned on just PNW and the required base files, along with FTXg and Vector..

 

It was very smooth.. average of around 33 fps in the fsmark07 45 second fraps test.. stuttering is usually worst right at the 48 second mark actually, after veering away from the "golf course".. i hit mins of around 19 there on a bad one.. this time my min was 24..  (This 33 fps avg gets up around 43-44 if i turn off PNW and vector)  (all these are done in hybrid mode checked off)

 

I also did NOT get blurries, this was while PNW was still checked too (and again all other 3rd party addons were off).

 

So for me at least, some other addon of the many i have installed is causing the increase in stuttering.. now i just need to fine tune if it is an FTX one, or another 3rd party.

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