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Rickie Welsh

Loading NATS into 747-400 FMC

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Hi Everyone,  I do not usually fly long haul, but since giving it a try with the 777-200 successfully, I turned my attention to the 747-400 but hit a brick wall.  Whilst trying to insert NATS into the 747 FMC I kept getting Not in Database,  I have the 1406 airac installed.  I did a partial search in the Forum and also the FMC users manual plus Web searches but none of the info details received made any difference I keep getting Not in Database.  Can anyone help.  Much obliged.

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Well, I do not own 744 but usually there are two ways: either to enter predefined 5 character fixes stowed in A/C database, or to enter fully custom coordinates in format acceptable to FMC (The acceptable format is the one you see when you enter your position during IRS aligment). 

 

Now if you are getting "not in database" message, it can be because of two things: either it's really not in database, or you are entering wrong 5 character identifier.

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Hello LJ,  I am not expert in nav. matters but I would have thought that the Data Base would have had a common denominator throughout all PMDG aircraft.  In the 777 FMC one of the NATS for the route I was loading was 57N020W which loaded as N57W020 and continued in that format for the others. This was not accepted in the 747-400. Thanks for your reply.

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Have you tried to enter it as 5720N? (per Boeing 777 manual, it should be the same for 744).

 

Or you can use 7 character full coordinate format: N57W020.

 

EDIT: just checked PMDG navdata file -  5720N is in the database and that's the correct format if you want to pull the fix from database.

 

Check the 777 FCOM Vol.2 pages 11.31.13 and 11.31.14. for reference. It should be the same for 744 as nav database is the same one.

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Hello LJ, Many thanks for your help, I tried your format 5720N and it worked ok but the strange thing was, in filling in the route usually its airways to the left first followed by waypoints to the right, but in the 747 I found it to be the reverse procedure. Anyway thanks again.

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If all else fails, you can always input LAT/LON waypoints in "full" format, in which, for example, 52 degrees north, 30 degrees west would be entered as N5200.0W02000.0 - where degrees and minutes come before the decimal point, and (single digit) seconds after the decimal.

 

Thus, a LAT/LON of 52 degrees, 16 minutes, .6 seconds North, 23 degrees, 33 minutes, .4 seconds West would be entered as: N5216.6W02333.4

 

This should work for any Boeing FMS. If the degrees and seconds are all zero, you can also enter in the format N52W020.

 

Neither of these methods of entering coordinates actually require the use of the database, since you are putting the LAT/LON directly into the FMS working memory in its own native format. If you get a "NOT IN DATABASE" error, check the format of your entry, and be sure you are entering into the correct side (left or right) of the FMS route menu.

 

North Atlantic waypoints entered in the format 5220N do reference the database, but almost all of the typical LAT/LON crossings used on NAT routes should be in the standard AIRACs from either Aerosoft or Navigraph. But if one truly is missing in the database, you can always use the "full" format for LAT/LON, though it is pretty tedious to enter a whole series of waypoints in the expanded format.

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Hello Jim,  Thanks for your input.  The NATS you mentioned in your 3rd Para. works in the 777 as I used that formula successfully but when I tried it in the 747 I got the message Not in Database.  In my message No.5 above to LJ the formula he gave 5720N does work in the 747 FMC.  So I think I am right in saying that there seems to be a lot of variations on a theme.  This Post might drag on with varying answers.

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Richard:

 

By now, your original question has been answered a number of times. My only additional suggestion would be to download the FMC Guide that PMDG offers on its web site, at http://pmdg.com/pages/downloads/docs.html. In the discussion of "Latitude/Longitude Waypoint" on pp. 29 - 30, two possible formats are mentioned, NXXXX.X/EXXXXX.X and NXXEXXX.

 

However, the 747 FMC Guide does not include the XXXXN format that LJ suggested. I use this format most often on Transatlantic flights because it works so easily with the waypoints that are selected for each track. However, this shortened format is often misused for flights elsewhere since there are 2 options for the same 5 characters. For example, 5040N represents N50° W040°, but 50N40 represents 50N40 is N50° W140°. This format is not mentioned in the 747 guide, but it is discussed in the PMDG 777 FCOM Volume 2 Guide (available through the PMDG Operations Center).

 

Also, I just tried all three formats in PMDG's B747X and B777-200LR aircraft. They all work as expected.

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Hi Richard

 

As I have flown the PMDG 747-400 several times back and forth across the Atlantic, I normally use FlightSim Commander 9 which has a NATS feature to insert in the flightplan. When saved, and you import it that saved plan into the CoRoute, all your NATS tracks will be inserted into the Legs page, but am not sure if you have FSC9. But AFAIK, if you have PFPX, it does a similar job. Hope this helps.

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Hello Stuart,  Thanks for your info. I used the 747 FMC users guide which gave NATS data which I tried to insert into the FMC but returned Not in Database. This guide is dated 2006 and I think when the new 747v2 arrives, all this old data will be updated. My Post originated from my opening Para,


Hello Rick,  I am aware of your product suggestions but I use Rfinder.asalink for routes giving NATS and have done so for a long time. I try and minimise my expenses as much as possible being an OAP.

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Hi Richard. No sweat. It was just a suggestion. I hope somebody here cracks it for you. Good Luck.

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 but the strange thing was, in filling in the route usually its airways to the left first followed by waypoints to the right, but in the 747 I found it to be the reverse procedure. Anyway thanks again.

You are confusing LEGS page and RTE page.

 

LEGS page you enter waypoints/VOR etc on the left side, there is no facility to enter VIA's or airways.

RTE page you enter airways on the left and waypoints etc on the right.

 

In the FS9 747 if you want to enter co-ordinates such as NATS waypoints, you must use the LEGS page. Use the format N50W020  or N5000.0W02000.0

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Hello Peter,  I think your reply is open for debate, if you read all the replies to  my original Post you will see a variety of answers to my original problem. Secondly, if you read my extract in your reply you will see you have made a statement which I have mentioned in the extract i.e. left and right.  Further to this, the format given by LJ Prodanovic, above -5720N works for me and a flight last night  was successful.  Gents, I feel this topic has been successfully answered to my satisfaction, Thanks to all who replied.

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Just a note... I'm attempting to enter LAT/LONGs in the RTE page in both 'NXXXX.XWXXXXX.X' and 'NXXWXXX' formats and coming up with a "NOT IN DATABASE" message; however they are both able to be entered in the LEGS page.  The only ones recognized in the RTE page are those in the 'XXXXN' format.  I currently fly the -400 for an ACMI carrier and I'm pretty sure that this differs from the performance of the actual FMC.  Any thoughts?

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I cannot find any information about that. In PMDG777, you can enter long format, and 7 char short format, and 5 char database format in RTE page.

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The PMDG 747-400 FMC simulation is really quite old and it isn't as complete as more recent simulations. There a number of real world things you can't do with it that can be done in more recent products like the 777X. PMDG aren't going to fix those now with the 747v2 being worked on.

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The PMDG 747-400 FMC simulation is really quite old and it isn't as complete as more recent simulations. There a number of real world things you can't do with it that can be done in more recent products like the 777X. PMDG aren't going to fix those now with the 747v2 being worked on.

 

Good point. After I enter a long routing from PFPX via the CO ROUTE, everything is fine on the LEGS pages. But nothing shows up at all on the RTE pages!

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