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Christopher Low

EGPB Sumburgh and Horizon GenX photoscenery

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Has anyone else tried using the recently released EGPB Sumburgh with PlayHorizon GenX photoscenery of the Shetland Isles, and also Scotflight? It seems that one file (cvx_ORBX_EGPB_EXCLUDES.bgl) causes an issue whereby a large rectangle of default terrain is displayed around the airport and peninsula. I have also noticed one or two mesh issues associated with the headland that has the lighthouse on it. If the file mentioned above is removed, the airport itself suffers serious mesh issues.

 

I know that ORBx state that FTX Scotland is required to use EGPB Sumburgh, but I am hoping that some clever AVSIM member will be able to work out how to use it properly with the PlayHorizon GenX photoscenery :smile:

 

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Has anyone else tried using the recently released EGPB Sumburgh with PlayHorizon GenX photoscenery of the Shetland Isles, and also Scotflight? It seems that one file (cvx_ORBX_EGPB_EXCLUDES.bgl) causes an issue whereby a large rectangle of default terrain is displayed around the airport and peninsula. I have also noticed one or two mesh issues associated with the headland that has the lighthouse on it. If the file mentioned above is removed, the airport itself suffers serious mesh issues.

 

I know that ORBx state that FTX Scotland is required to use EGPB Sumburgh, but I am hoping that some clever AVSIM member will be able to work out how to use it properly with the PlayHorizon GenX photoscenery :smile:

 

Hello:

 

Could you post a link to some screenshots showing what you are describing in your text message above ?

 

Also, when you state "default terrain", are you referring to terrain TEXTURES ?

 

And when you refer to "mesh issues", are you referring to terrain  SHAPE ?

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on this ! :smile:

 

GaryGB

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Chris..boy oh boy am I glad I let you test this one for me this time ;) k

Pic 1 looks like a similar issue I had after purchasing Southampton. It appears like a water poly has been replaced in a single QMID 13 (I think?) square. I fixed this fairly easily by disabling one file with Southampton IIRC.

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Which file was that, Kevin? I have tried disabling various cvx files, but disabling the only one that solves this problem results in other serious mesh issues. In fact, I will try to remember to post another screenshot later today that illustrates what I mean.

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Can't honestly remember mate, have a vague recollection I needed to have at least one of the FTX scenery layers on as well for things to work properly. I'd need some time to go back and look at how it worked... (I spectacularly failed to document it at the time :P) K

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Screenshots showing some of the mesh problems if I switch off the cvx_ORBX_EGPB_EXCLUDES.bgl file. This gets rid of the unwanted default scenery, but clearly doesn't resolve my issues!

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/qz8yirkyo3g8hwo/fsx_2014-06-13_15-59-11-43.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/sqlttr5nayl9sza/fsx_2014-06-13_15-57-56-61.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/view/qiodj5d99819xx6/fsx_2014-06-13_15-56-59-55.jpg

 

It would be nice to think that ORBx would try and help, but even thinking about that would be a spectacular waste of time!

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Hi Christopher:

 

[EDITED]

 

Are you using the (latest ?) version of "Scotflight - Scotflight for FSX: Vol 1 - Highlands & Islands" ...as described here? :Thinking:

 

http://www.flightsimstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=472

 

 

BTW: Product descriptions / announcements on developer's  webpage...

 

" Welcome to Scotflight Scenery

 

Since 2003, Scotflight has been the leading supplier of
high-quality Flight Simulator add-on scenery for Scotland

 

NOW AVAILABLE - Scotflight for FSX V3.0

 

 

http://www.scotflightscenery.com/EGPB.htm

 

http://www.scotflightscenery.com/ImageCall2.php?Code=EGPB-001

 

http://www.scotflightscenery.com/ImageCall2.php?Code=EGPB-002

 

http://www.scotflightscenery.com/ImageCall2.php?Code=EGPB-005

 

 

STANDARD licence (no photoscenery) adds or enhances 63 airports

PHOTO licence (works with ANY combination of photoscenery volumes) adds or enhances 78 airports

 

Patch A for Scotflight for FSX V3.0 (Standard or Photo) is now available

 

ALSO AVAILABLE - Scotflight for ORBX V1.0

 

Enhances 18 airfields in FTX Orbx Europe Scotland "

 

http://www.scotflightscenery.com/

 

 

Do you also have add-on vector scenery such as Ultimate Terrain Europe, OrbX FTX Vector, Pilots FS Global Vector, Taburet - FSX Vector Europe loaded, and/or do you have any higher resolution add-on terrain mesh installed, which geographically covers the Sumburgh airport area ?

 

 

 

NOTE: IIRC, the OrbX FTX England and/or Scotland scenery region packages use 10-Meter resolution (aka "LOD-12" or "QMID-14") terrain mesh.

 

The Horizon / Playsims Scotland terrain mesh terrain mesh which accompanies their photoreal scenery is based on a 5-Meter resolution Level of Detail (aka "LOD-13" or "QMID-15").

 

The OrbX FTX Sumburgh terrain mesh reportedly is based on a maximum of 0.3-Meter resolution Level of Detail (aka "LOD-17" or "QMID-19").

 

 

All the above terrain mesh BGLs when set active will be read and internally given a display priority by the FSX terrain rendering engine... according to their internal resolution AND according to how your FSX GUI Terrain mesh Complexity and Terrain mesh Complexity sliders are set.

 

IMHO, to enable the display of OrbX FTX Sumburgh the way the scenery is capable of being displayed (based on internal resolution of the BGL files), the FSX menu GUI terrain mesh complexity and resolution sliders must appear to be maxed out to the right and your FSX.Cfg file would need to be manually edited ...to enable that extreme terrain mesh resolution:

 

[TERRAIN]
MESH_COMPLEXITY=100
MESH_RESOLUTION=27

 

15-Centimer (aka 0.15 Meter) photoreal terrain textures for FTX Sumburg may not display on top of other add-on (ex: Horizon / Playsims Scotland) custom photoreal or default terrain textures ...unless the FSX GUI Terrain Texture Resolution slider is maxed out to the right and /or your FSX.Cfg file is edited to enable that terrain texture resolution:

 

[TERRAIN]
TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29

 

However, reportedly other textures for airport surfaces at FTX Sumburgh utilize a setting of 7-Centimeters (aka 0.075 Meters) to enable display at full resolution; this is achieved by having the FSX GUI Terrain Texture Resolution slider maxed out to the right and /or your FSX.Cfg file edited as stated immediately above ...to enable that terrain texture resolution.

 

 

FYI: OrbX FTX Sumburgh scenery objects have apparently been modeled and/or placed to fit the "shape" of the ground surface provided via special terrain mesh BGLs supplied by that specific FTX airport scenery package, and would not normally be expected to show the anomalies you reported (regardless of whether either the OrbX FTX Scotland scenery region package or the Horizon / Playsims terrain mesh are loaded) ..."IF" display of the high resolution terrain mesh is fully enabled in FSX during flights at / near Sumburgh. :Idea:

 

[END_EDIT]

 

GaryGB

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Gary,

 

I use the version 2.5 Scotflight Photo package. This is the latest version for users of PlayHorizon GenX VFR Scotland photoscenery. In fact, the problems appear to be worse when I have Scotflight disabled. I will post a few more screenshots shortly to illustrate what I mean.


This is what happens to the lighthouse when Scotflight is disabled.....

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/4cm3gqc1a3h351q/fsx_2014-06-13_18-23-33-95.jpg

 

This is another anomaly that appears when the cvx_ORBX_EGPB_EXCLUDES.bgl file is disabled....

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/ajpac8oqyttcz6l/fsx_2014-06-13_18-27-03-26.jpg

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GaryGBs analysis re the terrain mesh issues makes sense Chris (and Gary's posts over at FSDeveloper are well known as being packed with info and detail!) I guess the first question is (since I don't own Sumburgh) what are it's recommended settings? And are you using them? K

 

Edit: any fix/workaround is likely to be different to Southampton because I don't think such a hi-res mesh was used there?

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My detail sliders are already at maximum, but I increased the MESH_RESOLUTION value from "25" to "27". This did not change anything at EGPB Sumburgh. I have no idea what the recommended settings are, but I think we both know that the ORBx guys would say "install FTX Scotland" :wink:

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Oh Chris I'm disappointed...I'd have expected you to RTFM even if you had no intention of following it ;). perhaps JV has had something inserted into newer sceneries to prevent us from making them compatible? :P K

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I don't bother with manuals, Kevin. I know everything already :lol:

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There is nothing in the manual that can help me work out how to get FTX EGPB Sumburgh working properly with PlayHorizon photoscenery. I had assumed that others would have tried this combination, but maybe everyone else prefers not to burn money for the fun of it? :biggrin:

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Hard to say Chris, my favoured approach in these circumstances is to start with only one file enabled, then gradually enable them until you get to something you can't live with, then find a fix/workaround with various development tools K

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Hi Again:

 

Whereas the OrbX FTX Scotland region scenery package reportedly recommends NOT using greater than 10 Meter resolution on the FSX scenery menu Terrain mesh slider, the OrbX FTX Sumburgh scenery package reportedly recommends using a 5 Meter resolution on the FSX scenery menu Terrain mesh slider.

 

 

Regarding the OrbX FTX Sumburgh Lighthouse Terrain Elevation Anomaly:

 

You may wish to first store a back up copy within a *.ZIP or *.RAR file, then disable display of this specific file:

 

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_AA_EGPB\scenery\cvx_ORBX_EGPB_Flatten_Sur.BGL

 

 

Although your described FS add-on milieu may give rise to  numerous variables arising from other installed scenery add-ons (which when all set "active", might contribute to terrain anomalies rendered by the FS terrain engine to deal at run time), the above procedure reportedly may remove the unusual flatten from underneath the OrbX FTX Sumburgh Lighthouse.

 

 

Although the OrbX FTX Sumburgh developers reportedly appear to have utilized triangulated "sloped" flattens with individual assigned elevations at vertex points in the above scenery, a "flat" flatten is apparently is rendered by the FS terrain engine at run time when cvx_ORBX_EGPB_Flatten_Sur.BGL is allowed to load.

 

 

One might wonder why the above scenario occurs if the scenery was substantially Beta-tested and vetted by experienced scenery developers prior to release. :wink:

 

Some may have raised questions in the past as to why certain add-on packages may prove "feature-limited" upon installation.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware (aka "Crip-Ware")

 

 

However, there are so many variables that may exist on a FS end users system which might impact the resulting display in FS at run-time, it might be better for the benefit of the doubt to be given to both developers and end users alike.

 

Finding terrain anomalies should IMHO, compel courteous reporting of such anomalies at the official support forum for FS add-on packages, as well as in 'other' forums (such as this one), so that both developers and end users can undertake meticulous testing to identify causes and solutions to FS scenery anomalies ...for the good of the FS Community as a whole.

 

 

BTW: The scenery library object(s) for the Sumburgh Lighthouse reportedly did not include an extension of the bottom base(s) into the ground of the hillside, nor a "terrain skirt", so upon very close "on-ground" inspection, one might see beneath the flat bottom of the objects.

 

But AFAIK, the above apparently may eliminate most grossly visible objections at that specific location in this scenery when flying nearby.

 

 

Hope this helps ! :smile:

 

GaryGB

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 Corrections / clarifications after AVSIM's (ridiculous) edit time-out...

[EDITED]
Although your described mix of installed FS scenery add-ons may give rise to numerous variables (which when all set "active", might contribute to terrain anomalies rendered by the FS terrain engine at run time), the above procedure reportedly may remove the unusual flatten from underneath the OrbX FTX Sumburgh Lighthouse.

And although the OrbX FTX Sumburgh developers reportedly appear to have utilized triangulated "sloped" flattens with individual assigned elevations at vertex points elsewhere in the above scenery, a "flat" flatten is apparently is rendered beneath the Lighthouse by the FS terrain engine at run time when cvx_ORBX_EGPB_Flatten_Sur.BGL is allowed to load.

[END_EDIT]


[EDITED]
Finding terrain anomalies should IMHO, compel courteous reporting of such anomalies at the official support forum for those FS add-on packages, as well as in 'other' forums (such as this one), so that both developers and end users can undertake meticulous testing to identify causes and solutions to FS scenery anomalies ...for the good of the FS Community as a whole.

[END_EDIT]

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Gary,

 

Thanks for the detailed information. I had already identified an improvement to the lighthouse by disabling the file that you mention, but my main problems are the large chuck of default scenery visible when using the airport, and also the rather dodgy looking "cliffs" at certain points on the peninsula that look like someone has sliced down them with a giant knife. I assume that this isn't the case when using the package with FTX Scotland, so it's a bit of a puzzle (considering that I have mesh resolution set to its maximum detail level).

 

If I could solve those two problems, then I would be able to use the airport.

 

As for not identifying problems during the beta testing stage, the developers of ORBx airport packages have no interest in making them work with anything other than the FTX regions. The fact that most of them can be made to work perfectly with UK photoscenery with only minor tweaks is partly due to UK2000 CVX files being available for those particular airfields, and partly due to blind luck! Unfortunately, EGPB Sumburgh is in a different type of location to the rest of the ORBx UK "airport fleet", which has resulted in additional problems.

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Hi Chris, are you running it with the OrbX FTX mesh or the GenX mesh under the airport terrain? I'm sorely tempted to buy it now - for the hours of fiddling around tryin to get it to work :p

Have you also tried PMing Lars? You may not receive official OrbX forum support but if you ask him nicely he may be able to give you a pointer as to what might be the best direction for you to head in? K

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Your first question is rather interesting, Kevin. You would think that disabling the GenX mesh would result in the airport using the ORBx FTX mesh that is provided with the package. However, if I do that, I get a very strange result. In short, half of the "bulk" of the peninsula is missing, and some of the walls and buildings in the area short of the runway 15 threshold are floating in the air!

 

As for sending a PM to Lars, I assumed that they would have a similar view as JV with respect to using FTX airports with GenX photoscenery. I could be wrong though, so maybe it's worth a shot....

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Ah but the scenery is expecting the FTX 10m mesh to be present so that it can 'fit' into it....your description seems to tally with only having the super detailed Sumburgh mesh active, leading to areas outside that being default terrain mesh and therefore incorrect? Have you activated the GenX mesh with Sumburgh to see if that gives a better result, or am I being thick and you've done that already? :p

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rather dodgy looking "cliffs" at certain points on the peninsula that look like someone has sliced down them with a giant knife

 

Reportedly, the cutting of terrain down to mean sea level (MSL) is due to:

 

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_AA_EGPB\scenery\cvx_ORBX_EGPB_Flatten_MSL.BGL

 

FYI: When the above file is opened in:

 

[Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\TmfViewer.exe

 

...and the colored area surrounding the land is right-clicked, one can see the GUID for the vector type used in the object, which in this case is reportedly a "flat" non-triangulated flatten (as distinguished from a triangulated and "sloped" flatten with varying elevations assigned to the vertex data points or 'vertices'), and apparently is intended to impart a specific shape to the shoreline, while also flattening water levels to sea level at a single elevation of 0 MSL / 0 AGL by cutting off the edge of land near OrbX FTX Sumburgh airport.

 

 

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheShp2VecTool

 

"Airport Boundaries

 

Although this area is titled Airport Boundaries, these are used for a number of purposes, including flattening a surface and excluding certain types of data, in addition to defining airport boundaries.

 

{47d48287-3ade-4fc5-8bec-b6b36901e612} Flatten"

 

 

BTW: "Vector" objects in vector-type BGLs can modify terrain mesh (when created as either legacy format LWM BGLs or newer CVX BGLs) ...without themselves being compiled via FS SDK Resample as a standard terrain mesh BGL.

 

 

NOTE: A "flat" non-triangulated flatten usually has a single elevation value assigned to its vertex data points aka 'vertices (...even though TMFViewer does not allow one to see the actual elevation values associated with vector flatten objects).

 

A "sloped" triangulated flatten usually has varying elevations assigned to the vertex data points aka 'vertices' as described above.

 

 

TMFViewer will, however, allow one to see the values assigned to the terrain mesh grid elevation data points in legacy format and newer FSX CVX  format terrain mesh BGLs.

 

 

TIP: Try opening the various CVX BGLs in the [FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_AA_EGPB\scenery folder in TMFViewer to see what they do ...based on any (FSX default) GUID IDs which may be referenced in SDK documents. :wink:

 

 

Hope this helps a bit more ! :smile:

 

GaryGB

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You're being thick, Kevin :smile: I need the GenX 5m mesh active to get a complete peninsula, although (as stated above) there are some anomalies with the terrain.

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PM sent to the developer (Lars Pinkenburg). I am not optimistic that it will produce a positive result, but it's worth a shot.

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